Working with Steve Jobs

- [Interviewer] I wonder, Ed, so I know a few people, including my friend and colleague, Dave Kelley, of the D School, who worked pretty closely with Steve Jobs on a number of projects. And he, and the other folks I know have their own way (laughs) of dealing with somebody who had a very complicated personality, who's obviously very blunt at times. I'm curious, you know, what you learned working with him, how you dealt with that type of personality. I'm sure you encountered it in other places along your career too. - [Ed] Well, when I first knew Steve, it was when he had just been removed from Apple for the kind of behavior that's, you know, part of the mythology around him. And I saw that Steve, and he bought Pixar, and so we started up, and that is kind of the way he was like at the time. And I found like a change over time. But for me, the story of Steve was more like the hero's journey. He actually was making mistakes early on. And when he formed NeXT, which he did shortly after…