A Strong Backend Engineer Presented Himself as Very Low Maintenance in his Interview - He was Still Rejected
This latest post drills down the just how seriously software engineering candidates need to take the formal Q&A interviewing experience that they might be having with any companies right now, especially if it's a non-technical interview.
The candidate highlighted today is a rock solid backend software engineer and in his initial conversation with the company's internal recruiter, he took the approach of being very direct and simple. In terms of initial impressions, he wanted to present himself as a very low maintenance software engineer. In 2018, he would have been fast tracked to a final onsite but in this current labor market, he was immediately rejected. To begin, here's the feedback on the candidate's interview,
Hey Mark, we are going to pass on ****. Technically he checked all the boxes and he does have some very nice experience. However, I simply do not see him being a fit for the team. #1 reason to decline was that he had zero questions for me. When I spoke with him about what kind of environment or team he would be thrive in, point blank, he said it didn't matter to him. So long as it involved data, he was fine.
Even the technology stack was not an issue for him. The only thing he seemed to care about was a Q&A with some of the other engineers that he would be working with. True, we need a technical skills fit and his resume is very impressive. But we also need team fit. And from a cultural standpoint, *** really came across as a lone wolf rather than someone who would blend in well with the team. Can you please let him know we are passing.
My initial review was a mere glance and I immediately messaged the candidate saying that, unfortunately, the company was not going to move forward. Later that evening, I re-read the feedback and I have to admit that it stung and here is why. My feeling was that the feedback represented a misunderstanding of this candidate's true intentions regarding the kind of impression he was trying to make. This engineer is a first generation American and while I cannot disclose the specific country he's from, he is of Eastern European descent. Super nice guy and technically brilliant. He's been in the States since 2015 and recently earned his green card as well.
If there are some people who are offended by this story then my sincere apologies but for the record, I hold this historical description of people in the absolute highest regard and I think the world of them. Further, I have worked with thousands of these engineers since the mid 90's and some of their stories are just incredible. Labels that are applied to people can often be very difficult to shed and when I entered the recruiting profession, this term was used on a very regular basis for this group of people. The word I am talking about is "Frankenstein".
If you're a Mel Brooks fan, feel free to pronounce it as "Frawnken-Steen". Either way, these engineers hailed from countries such as Russia, Croatia, Germany, Lithuania and so on. First generation Americans, stoic in nature yet possessing a profound mastery of software engineering and data science skills. They were known to sit in a corner and just crush out code all day. And their deliverables were industry top 1%. But despite this incredible gift for programming, their quiet nature and tendency to keep to themselves stunted the vertical growth of their careers. Management often wasn't part of the career track for these brilliant individuals and as a result, they would top out at Staff or Principal Software Engineer. But what was so incredible is that most of the time, they didn't care. They just wanted to work on really hard problems and solve them in the best possible manner. And over time, this unique approach to their career made this community of engineers some of the most sought after and desired talent in the IT industry. The last time I remember hearing this term in Austin was the mid 2010's when a CTO said to me,
"Cunningham, for this Data Architecture role, I need some real horsepower. From scratch, someone who can deliver at the absolute highest level. Go get me a Frankenstein who can get it done without interruption!".
And I would set upon my search but to make it clear to my reading audience, I would not focus on stoic Eastern Europeans but rather, innately curious software engineers whose primary focus in their job search was to find really challenging problems to work on and provide solutions that were industry top 1%. These engineers literally "geeked out" on the hardest problems possible. So point being, you could be 26 year old female software engineer from Nashville, Tennessee and still be a hard core Frankenstein. While the original description referenced Eastern Europeans coming to America in the 80's and 90's, it evolved into a term that could be applied to anyone. For the record, in the recruiting world, I am labeled as a Frankenstein and I could not be more proud of it. The identity is a very strong professional compliment.
I don't need to go into detail about the current state of affairs in the IT industry. The layoffs continue to happen on a weekly basis and while there are tech firms hiring right now, the number of openings is much smaller than the current candidate pool. So with this new landscape in play, a lot of engineers have shed the cosmetic benefits that were ruling their job searches 18 months ago. I know some very strong developers right now whose focus is to simply secure a paycheck and get back to writing code. Nothing else! And this dynamic extends well beyond the software engineering profession too. In the world of technical recruiting, the four of us at The Bidding Network want nothing more than 5-6 open positions to actively search on. Given the state of things right now, are a lot of us in the IT industry channeling our inner Frankensteins in search of returning to the core foundation of our professions? Talk about humility and returning to your roots. It's disappointing to know that the brilliant engineer in this story authentically presented himself in the most simple and straightforward manner yet it resulted in him being rejected on account of being a poor culture match. I know of several software engineers on the market right now, if they were to secure an introductory interview with a company, the conversation would go something like this,
Hiring Manager: So, I see the majority of your experience is with React.js and as you know from the job description, we're still mostly Angular and will be for quite a while. Are you okay with that framework?
Engineer: Absolutely, not a problem at all. I will still find the work interesting.
Hiring Manager: By the way, this position is no longer remote and we're three days a week minimum in office. We're downtown and I see you live in Cedar Park.
Engineer: I don't care. That's fine with me and I'll do the commute. Happy to come in.
Hiring Manager: So you would be the only UI Engineer on a team of full stack/backend engineers but the front-end architecture has already been built out so there isn't too much green field work on the table right now. Your thoughts on this?
Engineer: Fine. Not a problem at all. I'm just looking to get on board somewhere.
So at face value, the engineer in this exchange is very low maintenance and 100% ready to get started with this company. However, he/she might need to be careful because these answers could be perceived by the hiring manager as somewhat dismissive in nature. The engineer goes to bed that evening feeling that the call went well, yet their application gets filed while the company continues interviewing other candidates hoping to find a stronger culture match. Such an experience would be incredibly frustrating but everyone, it's definitely happening out there right now.
In closing, if your first interview is with a company's HR Manager or internal recruiter, this story is a reminder that both bases still need to be covered, that being technical and cultural. If your job search is active, please remember to keep some interpersonal finesse in play. If the moment presents itself, make it clear how much you still enjoy a company's "Beer Thirty" on Friday afternoons as well as other social functions. Not to mention how much you value the dynamic of collaboration with your co-workers. That's a fancy word that recruiters like to hear these days from software engineers. The engineer in this story, as much as I loved the simplicity and direct nature of his messaging, delivered his responses in a manner where he was deemed as a poor "team fit" for the company. And as a result, he was rejected.
First generation American from Eastern Europe. Knowing the city he grew up in, he came up poor but that didn't stop him from doing very well for himself. He represents the kind of human being that doesn't need anything. However, these amazing qualities were perceived incorrectly by a non-technical interviewer. As far as interviewing etiquette is concerned, I plan to have a virtual meeting with him to discuss a new approach to interviews like this in the future. My hope is that he catches on as quickly as possible. He's a great guy and I wish him the best.
Thanks,
Mark Cunningham
Technical Recruiter
512-699-5719
http://thebiddingnetwork.com
http://markcunningham91.blogspot.com
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VP of Product at Cardlytics
2yOne tip for engineers in this environment may be to research the company, its core business, and be prepared to demonstrate genuine excitement and passion for the employer and driving business value through their technical competencies. It’s an extra step some engineers may not be used to in interview prep, but demonstrating business curiosity and understanding can set technical candidates apart in this job market. People want to work with people who are genuinely excited about the opportunity. Still, I have a heart for developers and techies, especially the great ones who are pleasant and flexible (and often also more quiet/reserved). It’s a hard job and being flexible is critical for success. It’s equally important for recruiters and hiring teams to understand how stressful this market is and that they may be missing out on great talent by making such quick judgements. Some of the best engineers I work with are agreeable but still uncompromising in the quality of what they deliver. It’s important to not conflate the two characteristics.
Human-in-the-loop; Swiping right for science; culture-builder
2yThis is the first time I've heard the "Frankenstein" term. I've certainly worked with people like this, and am happy to have them on the team. Stoic developers (heck, people) require empathy and understanding from the people they interact with - team members, colleagues, and even the hiring team. Just because they don't express themselves doesn't mean there's no there, there. Often, once their trust is gained, they can be very expressive. That said, their apparent "I am fine with anything" nature can be off-putting. I recommend to them that instead of saying "I can do it", they would be well-served to express curiosity if they don't want to express preference. "Preference" can be seen as "higher maintenance", but when cast as a willingness to learn it appears as a positive attribute. That does require a certain humility and vulnerability from "Frank", which can be hard for some personality types.
Senior Software Engineer | Smart and laid back
2yYet another example of how broken the software engineer interview experience is. I found your last imaginary exchange especially hilarious. The interviewer asks a series of questions to determine if the candidate if fine working with this technology, in this location, and with this design/architecture and he says he's okay with it all, and the recruiter still isn't satisfied. Yet if the candidate had said he had a problem with any of those things, he'd also be rejected. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.