Get out of your own way: Jocelyne Wright-McLemore wants you to go for the job (even if you think you’re not qualified)

In Leaders in Learning, we sit down with industry leaders and explore their lives and experiences to uncover the learning principles, key moments, and common threads that shape careers, businesses, and journeys. Through these collective stories, we'll piece together the bigger picture of what it means to be a leader in learning.

In 2008—mid-recession— Jocelyne Wright-McLemore was a year into a gruelling job search. Out of options and out of patience, she did something that most women won’t do: She applied for a job she didn’t feel qualified for (and got it). That bet-on-yourself moment sparked a mindset—say yes, then figure it out—that’s guided her ever since.

In this episode of Leaders in Learning, Jocelyne shares how that mindset—along with a deep belief in equity, empathy, and honest feedback—has shaped her approach to leadership.

You don’t want to miss this conversation. But if you’re short on time, here’s a summary of what Jocelyne had to say about leadership, psychological safety, the evolution of total rewards, and why skills (not degrees) are the future of talent.

Betting on you: What it takes to become a leader

TL;DR: Fake it till you make it, but don’t be afraid to ask for help.

That moment in 2008—the almost reckless act of self-belief—wasn’t about confidence. It was about necessity. About the realization that waiting for readiness is a luxury many women, especially women of color, can’t afford.

“I'm going to act like a white man. I'm just going to say that I can do it. I'll get the job. Then I'll prove to them that I can do it.”

It’s a familiar story so often unspoken: Imposter syndrome. The quiet calculation of whether you belong in the room. But what Jocelyne figured out—and what many successful leaders like her later realize—is that the leap comes first. The confidence comes later.

There’s courage in bluffing your way forward. Not pretending to know everything, but trusting that you can learn. But, as Jocelyne concedes, faking it only gets you so far. 

Years later, in a leadership role, she found herself facing skill gaps she couldn’t ignore. And so, in a moment that required even more courage than the initial leap, Jocelyne asked for help. Working with an executive coach for the first time, Jocelyne broke down. That breakdown was a breakthrough. She discovered that asking for help wasn't a sign of weakness. “It doesn’t mean I’m not smart. It doesn’t mean I’m not capable. It just means I’m not perfect. And not being perfect is okay.” 

Her executive coach had shown her what she couldn't see before: That vulnerability and leadership could coexist. That insight—vulnerability as an act of strength—didn’t just shape her leadership style. It reshaped how she asked for help. Jocelyne began to lean on trusted mentors, peers, and people who had navigated similar terrain. She believes that having a circle you can turn to for honest, objective feedback isn’t optional—it’s essential.

Because no one leads alone. And no one should have to.

What it takes to become a leader:

• Get comfortable being uncomfortable: Leadership grows outside your comfort zone
• Say yes to stretch roles: Don’t wait until you’re 100% qualified
• Ask for help: Confidence and vulnerability aren’t opposites—they’re companions
• Take advantage of an executive coach if your company provides it
• Seek out mentors or people who have done the things you want to accomplish
• Reflect on your growth moments: Trace the risks you’ve taken to the leader you’ve become

As Jocelyne notes, this kind of growth mindset doesn’t thrive in isolation—it needs a culture that rewards curiosity, embraces mistakes, and makes room for risk. In other words, psychological safety isn’t a bonus. It’s the bedrock.

Psychological safety: The foundation of innovation

TL;DR: People can’t grow if they’re afraid to fail.

It’s tempting to believe that innovation only comes from high IQs and flawless performers. But more often, it comes from a quiet voice in a meeting that says, “What if we tried it this way?” That voice doesn’t speak up without psychological safety.

For Jocelyne, psychological safety isn’t a perk. It’s a performance strategy. Because when people feel like they can admit what they don’t know, ask for help, and recover from mistakes, they move faster. They solve problems more creatively. And they build trust that compounds.

“When there is safety, people are willing to raise their hand. They take more risks. And risk-taking leads to innovation.”

The idea of psychological safety came into sharp focus during Jocelyne’s executive coaching sessions. Partly because she realized “a person is bringing their whole self to work,” and their home life can impact their work life. Through coaching, she began to unravel the layers of pressure she had been carrying—not just as a leader, but as a Black woman, as a first-born child, as someone raised to outperform (her dad was a Marine). It wasn’t just the job that was heavy. It was the feeling that she had to earn her right to be there every single day.

So she started showing up differently. Not performatively, but fully. Authentically. And she encourages other leaders to do the same—not just for themselves, but because their example gives others permission to breathe.

Want to build psychological safety into your culture? Try this:

• Swap answers for questions: Curiosity from leadership signals that it’s safe not to know everything
• Normalize the messy middle: Celebrate not just the win, but the learning that got you there
• Make feedback a habit, not an event: Think weekly, not yearly
• Address the unsaid: Team tension doesn’t disappear when you ignore it—it multiplies
• Be the example: Vulnerability is contagious—so is silence

This mindset shapes how Jocelyne approaches everything else in her leadership, including how she designs Total Rewards programs. Especially now—as younger generations push for purpose and flexibility, and AI continues to reshape how we work—that foundation of safety and trust has never been more critical.

Total Rewards are evolving: AI is part of the team

TL;DR: Compensation isn’t just about pay. It’s about purpose, growth, and adaptability.

Knowing firsthand that we bring our whole selves to work—our upbringing, identity, and lived experiences—Jocelyne takes employee well-being seriously. Life outlooks aren’t external to performance; they shape it.

That’s why she digs into reports like Gallup’s recent Employee Wellbeing Index, which measures how employees evaluate their lives and work. For Jocelyne, these aren’t just reports; they’re signals—signals that the way we think about rewards needs to change.

Jocelyne doesn’t view total rewards as a set of benefits or line items on a pay stub, but as a system of care—a strategy for showing employees that their growth, health, and potential actually matter. She also views it as a way to bring about equity.

“I think more and more Total Rewards is about taking care of the whole person and then seeing the benefits when there’s high engagement and people are excited about work.”

And here's where it gets interesting: AI is fundamentally reshaping what work looks like, which has employees wondering whether they belong or whether they’ll be replaced. Jocelyne sees this moment as an opportunity for companies to get ahead: Rethink how performance is measured, how development is rewarded, and how equity is maintained in a world where AI is accelerating everything.

So, how do you build a rewards strategy that recognizes not just what people do, but what they’re capable of becoming? One that accounts for automation without erasing humanity? One that’s future-ready, human-centered, and equitable?

Try this:

• Evaluate your definition of rewards: Go beyond compensation to include flexibility, wellness, and growth
• Add AI literacy to your rewards framework: Recognize and reward upskilling in digital capabilities
• Reassess fairness in the AI era: Ensure performance management isn’t skewed by biased algorithms
• Stay transparent: Let employees know how AI tools are being used and their potential impact on employee performance

Total rewards aren’t the only area due for reinvention. In Jocelyne’s view, talent development—the way we nurture, recognize, and grow capability—needs to be reimagined too.

The future of skills: Capabilities over degrees

TL;DR: Hire for potential, not just a diploma.

Jocelyne didn’t start her leadership journey with a diploma in hand. In fact, she only recently completed her BSc in Human Resources Management. Her degree came late. But her leadership? That started years earlier.

What she had from the beginning was something far harder to teach: A track record of building, leading, and transforming teams. More and more, companies are discovering what Jocelyne has long known—that capability isn’t something you can always measure with a degree.

With AI reshaping roles and new technologies redefining what good work looks like, the traditional talent pipeline is under pressure. Skills are evolving faster than syllabi.

“Higher Ed tends to be a little bit behind what’s actually happening in the business world.”

What matters now? Curiosity. Resilience. The ability to learn, unlearn, and learn again.

Jocelyne believes the future of talent development lies in what you build, not just what you buy. While it might once have been enough to hire people who already had the skills, the pace of change now demands something different: Managers who can spot raw potential and develop it.

This shift requires a new kind of infrastructure—one that makes learning visible, career paths flexible, and growth a daily habit. Because in a world moving this fast, the best investment any company can make isn’t necessarily a diploma. It’s human potential.

Want to future-proof your talent strategy? Here's how:

• Drop the degree requirement (where possible): Focus on capabilities, not credentials
• Build internal capability academies: Make learning a core part of the employee experience
• Train your managers as coaches: Help them spot and nurture raw talent
• Track learning, not just performance: Use learning data to inform promotions and pay

These days, Jocelyne is channeling that same boldness into building bridges for others. As a leader, she doesn’t just manage talent—she develops it. She spots potential, opens doors, and gives her people room to grow. Because leadership isn’t about climbing the ladder alone. It’s about reaching back and pulling others up with you.

Whether you’re navigating change, eyeing your next role, or leading a team through uncertainty, Jocelyne’s story is a reminder that you don’t have to feel ready to take the leap. You just have to take it.

Check out the full episode for more insights and actionable steps you can take to modernize your organization’s Total Rewards system and talent strategy.

Have questions or comments? Leave your thoughts below. And if you haven’t already, subscribe to Leaders in Learning so you never miss an episode.