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Path to Product
Kelly Chou
What we will cover today
● Who I am
● What is product management
● What is a data product
● What do PMs do everyday
● Why PM
● How I got into product
● How to transition into product
● How I can support you
Hi, I’m Kelly
I'm a technical product manager with 5+ years of experience building data
platforms, analytics tools, APIs, and online education courses.
I started out my career running a video product business, then went through
multiple pivots from e-learning, data science, to data product, and now a technical
product manager at a Series A startup called CertifID.
I grew up in Taipei, Taiwan. I studied Economics and Arts at the University of
California - San Diego, then did a Data Science Bootcamp in SF.
When not working, I like to write, meditate, dance, and lift weight.
Have you ever
wonder…
Why do some grandparents have a hard time with Alexa
What makes TikTok a better social media app than
Facebook
What makes Tesla the most popular self-driving car today
Why did Facebook rebrand itself as Meta
What are the assumptions being made behind your GPA
You are already
thinking like a PM
without realizing it.
You have to focus on solving the ultimate user problem
What is a
product?
● It has users
● It solves user problems
● It has people that are
willing to pay someone
(you!) to solve the
problems
What is a
data product?
● It has users.
○ often time are internal users
● It solves users problems
specifically around data
○ anywhere from availability,
quality, to decision-making
● It has people that are willing to pay
someone to solve the problems
○ often time it’s a company
investing in resources to solve
internal data problems
There are 5 types of data products
Raw Data
Raw Data
Derived
Data
There are 5 types of data products
Raw Data
Derived
Data
Algorithms
There are 5 types of data products
Raw Data
Derived
Data
Algorithms
Decision Supports
There are 5 types of data products
Data Products
Raw Data
Derived
Data
Algorithms
Decision Supports
Automated Decision-Making
Reference:
https://towardsdatascience.co
m/designing-data-products-
b6b93edf3d23
What does a
Product Manager
do everyday?
● Discovery
● Vision and Roadmap
● Prioritization
● Execution
● Many more
○ Make friends, convince stakeholders
and leadership, get people excited
about your product, study
competitors, assess the market
space, form opinions that are backed
by data, make bets when there isn’t
enough data, tell stories about your
product, take the trash out, and
anything in between.
● Eyes for Design
● Mind for Engineering
● Ears for Listening
● Nose for Product Market Fit
● Heart for Leadership
Why PM?
The joy of mastering
the 5 elements
Master all 5 “elements”
and bring balance to your company
Why PM?
I didn’t start by saying
“one day, I’m going to become a
Product Manager”
These are the thing that I do
naturally ever since I was a kid:
● Design experiences
● Follow curiosity
● Make friends
● Build intuition on market trends
● Desire to be a leader
My journey into product management is non-linear
UC - San Diego
Econ & Visual Arts
Video Production
Business
Tech startups, VC firms
Online Course
Business
Google AI, Stanford Leadership
Data Science
Bootcamp
Mental health startups
100+ interviews
and many gigs
Department of States, Northeastern,
Jumbo Privacy, Woken
Data/ Technical PM
The Zebra, Capital One
● Eyes for Design
● Mind for Engineering
● Ears for Listening
● Nose for Product Market
Fit
● Heart for Leadership
Why PM?
The joy of mastering
the 5 core skills
This non-linear path makes me the PM I am today
UC - San Diego
Design
Video Production
Business
Eyes for Design; Ears for
Listening
Online Course
Business
Nose for Product Market Fit
Data Science
Bootcamp
Mind for Engineering
100+ interviews
and many gigs
Design, Listening, Leadership
Data/ Technical PM
Leadership; Listening;
Engineering
Design, Engineering,
Leadership, Listening, Product
Market Fit
At CertifID, we
use data to…
● Make business decisions
● Identify product
opportunities
● Prioritize new features/
products
● Create breakthrough
innovation in fraud tech
How to transition into
Product
● Eyes for Design
● Mind for Engineering
● Ears for Listening
● Nose for Product Market Fit
● Heart for Leadership
You can start
practicing these
skills now
and build artifacts along the way
Eyes for Design
Write design critiques
Build mocks
When you see products you
like, ask what you like about
it and why
Write a semantic layer PRD
Mind for
Engineering
Make friends with engineers
Build simple products
Read a Github repo
Draw architecture diagrams
When you see products you
like, ask how it was built
Ears for
Listening
Run user interview sessions
on products you’re familiar
with.
What problem is it solving?
What are the friction points?
How would you improve the
product? How would you
build a hypothetical backlog
based on user feedback?
Nose for Product
Market Fit
Market Assessment
SWOT Analysis
Start selling product ideas
and get customers to
validate the market via FB
ads/ campus ads/ booth/
posters…etc
Story: art supply business
Heart for
Leadership
Practice taking responsibility
Practice taking ownership in
all areas of your life
Practice making decisions
for a group and convince
them why your decisions are
right while making them feel
heard and valued
But
the market is competitive
the economy is tough
it’s hard to break into PM
I’m not getting interviews
…
But
the market is competitive
the economy is tough
it’s hard to break into PM
I’m not getting interviews
…
Focus on the following 10 things:
1. Work on projects (if not enough XP)
2. Form a board of advisors
3. Know your niche
4. Build a VIP resume
5. Craft your stories
6. Become an interview machine
7. Master the funnel
8. Always be selling
9. Get used to rejections
10. Treat it like a Super Mario game
Your Goal:
Become that top 1%
But
the market is competitive
the economy is tough
it’s hard to break into PM
I’m not getting interviews
…
Path to Product Management by Kelly Chou©
Helpful Resources
Rubrics to track and build your product skills. Link here.
To become an
interview
machine
● Read:
○ How to Crack the PM Interview
● Watch
○ Exponent Youtube Videos
● Write
○ Write down your answers to
various prompts in essay form
○ Write down stories in STAR
● Practice
○ Lewis Lin PM Interview Slack
● Get coached
○ Reach out to mentors/ senior PMs
Write PRDs
● Looker Explore Spec template.
Link here.
● Asana spec template. Public
copy here.
● A fun example to find tea
places in NYC. Wrote in 2
hours. Link here.
How I can
support you
● Stay connected on linkedin
● Reach out to me for
mentorship
● Reach out to me for resume
or interview critique
● Sign up for my newsletters at
kellythepm.com
Credits
● Damian Tew for the quote, “Eyes for design…etc”
● Tyler Adams for the car analogy and “you are already a PM” questions
● Matt O'Brien for inspiring the super mario analogy
● Alicia Fremling for coaching me to make the PM skill tracker board
● Aurora Quinn-Elmore for practical interview and negotiation advice
● Ian Boyle for interview feedback and numerous interview practices
● Kristie Moy for resume feedback and interview practices
● Killu Sanborn for connecting me with project opportunities
● Jen Mazzon for reviewing and giving feedback on my resume
● Chris Hendel for conversations around transition, challenges, and tech debt
● OOOhours (Out of Office Hours) for connecting me with product mentors
● Ray Batra and ShiftUp for connecting me with mentors and opportunities
Disclaimers
This presentation may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been
specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This presentation operates under
the assumption that this not-for-profit use constitutes a “fair use” of the
copyrighted material. If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purpose of
your own that go beyond such “fair use”, you must obtain permission from the
original copyright author.
The opinions expressed in this presentation are solely those of the presenter and
not necessarily those of CertifID, Capital One, or any other corporations. The
accuracy or reliability of the information provided herein is not guaranteed.

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Path to Product Management by Kelly Chou©

  • 2. What we will cover today ● Who I am ● What is product management ● What is a data product ● What do PMs do everyday ● Why PM ● How I got into product ● How to transition into product ● How I can support you
  • 3. Hi, I’m Kelly I'm a technical product manager with 5+ years of experience building data platforms, analytics tools, APIs, and online education courses. I started out my career running a video product business, then went through multiple pivots from e-learning, data science, to data product, and now a technical product manager at a Series A startup called CertifID. I grew up in Taipei, Taiwan. I studied Economics and Arts at the University of California - San Diego, then did a Data Science Bootcamp in SF. When not working, I like to write, meditate, dance, and lift weight.
  • 5. Why do some grandparents have a hard time with Alexa What makes TikTok a better social media app than Facebook What makes Tesla the most popular self-driving car today Why did Facebook rebrand itself as Meta What are the assumptions being made behind your GPA
  • 6. You are already thinking like a PM without realizing it.
  • 7. You have to focus on solving the ultimate user problem
  • 8. What is a product? ● It has users ● It solves user problems ● It has people that are willing to pay someone (you!) to solve the problems
  • 9. What is a data product? ● It has users. ○ often time are internal users ● It solves users problems specifically around data ○ anywhere from availability, quality, to decision-making ● It has people that are willing to pay someone to solve the problems ○ often time it’s a company investing in resources to solve internal data problems
  • 10. There are 5 types of data products Raw Data
  • 11. Raw Data Derived Data There are 5 types of data products
  • 12. Raw Data Derived Data Algorithms There are 5 types of data products
  • 14. Data Products Raw Data Derived Data Algorithms Decision Supports Automated Decision-Making Reference: https://towardsdatascience.co m/designing-data-products- b6b93edf3d23
  • 15. What does a Product Manager do everyday? ● Discovery ● Vision and Roadmap ● Prioritization ● Execution ● Many more ○ Make friends, convince stakeholders and leadership, get people excited about your product, study competitors, assess the market space, form opinions that are backed by data, make bets when there isn’t enough data, tell stories about your product, take the trash out, and anything in between.
  • 16. ● Eyes for Design ● Mind for Engineering ● Ears for Listening ● Nose for Product Market Fit ● Heart for Leadership Why PM? The joy of mastering the 5 elements
  • 17. Master all 5 “elements” and bring balance to your company
  • 18. Why PM? I didn’t start by saying “one day, I’m going to become a Product Manager” These are the thing that I do naturally ever since I was a kid: ● Design experiences ● Follow curiosity ● Make friends ● Build intuition on market trends ● Desire to be a leader
  • 19. My journey into product management is non-linear UC - San Diego Econ & Visual Arts Video Production Business Tech startups, VC firms Online Course Business Google AI, Stanford Leadership Data Science Bootcamp Mental health startups 100+ interviews and many gigs Department of States, Northeastern, Jumbo Privacy, Woken Data/ Technical PM The Zebra, Capital One
  • 20. ● Eyes for Design ● Mind for Engineering ● Ears for Listening ● Nose for Product Market Fit ● Heart for Leadership Why PM? The joy of mastering the 5 core skills
  • 21. This non-linear path makes me the PM I am today UC - San Diego Design Video Production Business Eyes for Design; Ears for Listening Online Course Business Nose for Product Market Fit Data Science Bootcamp Mind for Engineering 100+ interviews and many gigs Design, Listening, Leadership Data/ Technical PM Leadership; Listening; Engineering Design, Engineering, Leadership, Listening, Product Market Fit
  • 22. At CertifID, we use data to… ● Make business decisions ● Identify product opportunities ● Prioritize new features/ products ● Create breakthrough innovation in fraud tech
  • 23. How to transition into Product
  • 24. ● Eyes for Design ● Mind for Engineering ● Ears for Listening ● Nose for Product Market Fit ● Heart for Leadership You can start practicing these skills now and build artifacts along the way
  • 25. Eyes for Design Write design critiques Build mocks When you see products you like, ask what you like about it and why Write a semantic layer PRD
  • 26. Mind for Engineering Make friends with engineers Build simple products Read a Github repo Draw architecture diagrams When you see products you like, ask how it was built
  • 27. Ears for Listening Run user interview sessions on products you’re familiar with. What problem is it solving? What are the friction points? How would you improve the product? How would you build a hypothetical backlog based on user feedback? Nose for Product Market Fit Market Assessment SWOT Analysis Start selling product ideas and get customers to validate the market via FB ads/ campus ads/ booth/ posters…etc Story: art supply business
  • 28. Heart for Leadership Practice taking responsibility Practice taking ownership in all areas of your life Practice making decisions for a group and convince them why your decisions are right while making them feel heard and valued
  • 29. But the market is competitive the economy is tough it’s hard to break into PM I’m not getting interviews …
  • 30. But the market is competitive the economy is tough it’s hard to break into PM I’m not getting interviews …
  • 31. Focus on the following 10 things: 1. Work on projects (if not enough XP) 2. Form a board of advisors 3. Know your niche 4. Build a VIP resume 5. Craft your stories 6. Become an interview machine 7. Master the funnel 8. Always be selling 9. Get used to rejections 10. Treat it like a Super Mario game Your Goal: Become that top 1% But the market is competitive the economy is tough it’s hard to break into PM I’m not getting interviews …
  • 34. Rubrics to track and build your product skills. Link here.
  • 35. To become an interview machine ● Read: ○ How to Crack the PM Interview ● Watch ○ Exponent Youtube Videos ● Write ○ Write down your answers to various prompts in essay form ○ Write down stories in STAR ● Practice ○ Lewis Lin PM Interview Slack ● Get coached ○ Reach out to mentors/ senior PMs
  • 36. Write PRDs ● Looker Explore Spec template. Link here. ● Asana spec template. Public copy here. ● A fun example to find tea places in NYC. Wrote in 2 hours. Link here.
  • 37. How I can support you ● Stay connected on linkedin ● Reach out to me for mentorship ● Reach out to me for resume or interview critique ● Sign up for my newsletters at kellythepm.com
  • 38. Credits ● Damian Tew for the quote, “Eyes for design…etc” ● Tyler Adams for the car analogy and “you are already a PM” questions ● Matt O'Brien for inspiring the super mario analogy ● Alicia Fremling for coaching me to make the PM skill tracker board ● Aurora Quinn-Elmore for practical interview and negotiation advice ● Ian Boyle for interview feedback and numerous interview practices ● Kristie Moy for resume feedback and interview practices ● Killu Sanborn for connecting me with project opportunities ● Jen Mazzon for reviewing and giving feedback on my resume ● Chris Hendel for conversations around transition, challenges, and tech debt ● OOOhours (Out of Office Hours) for connecting me with product mentors ● Ray Batra and ShiftUp for connecting me with mentors and opportunities
  • 39. Disclaimers This presentation may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This presentation operates under the assumption that this not-for-profit use constitutes a “fair use” of the copyrighted material. If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purpose of your own that go beyond such “fair use”, you must obtain permission from the original copyright author. The opinions expressed in this presentation are solely those of the presenter and not necessarily those of CertifID, Capital One, or any other corporations. The accuracy or reliability of the information provided herein is not guaranteed.

Editor's Notes

  • #6: https://youtu.be/YvT_gqs5ETk
  • #8: PMs focus on the problem and iterate on solutions over time https://www.dthomason.com/essays/the-car-product-development-stages-analogy-sucks Suggested by Tyler Adams
  • #11: Reference: https://towardsdatascience.com/designing-data-products-b6b93edf3d23 How product engineers use data (event schema) How data scientist and machine learning engineers use data (build model and productionize model) How consumer product managers use data How marketing uses data How sales use data How exec use data
  • #12: Reference: https://towardsdatascience.com/designing-data-products-b6b93edf3d23 How product engineers use data (event schema) How data scientist and machine learning engineers use data (build model and productionize model) How consumer product managers use data How marketing uses data How sales use data How exec use data
  • #13: Data Product Definition Reference: https://towardsdatascience.com/designing-data-products-b6b93edf3d23 How product engineers use data (event schema) How data scientist and machine learning engineers use data (build model and productionize model) How consumer product managers use data How marketing uses data How sales use data How exec use data
  • #14: Reference: https://towardsdatascience.com/designing-data-products-b6b93edf3d23 How product engineers use data (event schema) How data scientist and machine learning engineers use data (build model and productionize model) How consumer product managers use data How marketing uses data How sales use data How exec use data
  • #15: Reference: https://towardsdatascience.com/designing-data-products-b6b93edf3d23 How product engineers use data (event schema) How data scientist and machine learning engineers use data (build model and productionize model) How consumer product managers use data How marketing uses data How sales use data How exec use data
  • #17: Quote from a mentor. Looking back, I can explain the why, but it wasn’t a conscious decision. I discovered PM naturally through many trials and errors.
  • #20: It was a long journey of exploration Sitting in an Econ class with a bucket of art supplies; I was a bit of a misfit. Obsessed with the user journey of seeing and taking a flyer. Sold a macbook pro for a BMW and built a video production business in the Bay Area. Observed conversations behind VCs like AngelList and sat in LP meetings. Spotted a market trend. I learned that I liked the business to art translation but didn’t like the inability to measure impact. “AI apocalypse” inspired me into DS. Can DS solve mental health? I learned that I didn’t like to be a “specialist”. I learned that I was most excited about talking to stakeholders to understand their needs and find ways to display data or model results in ways that stakeholders can digest. Followed another trend in online course building. Pivoted video production into online course. This pivot was also a good timing as Covid hit and everyone went into remote learning. Fell in love with user testing, prototyping, defining success, running sprints…etc. This is when I discovered PM and fell in love with it. I was sitting on a giant bungee at a hacker house backyard with the Google AI researcher translating his mind into content Then we invited a group of beta users to test the content live and get their feedback What I’ve learned about myself: don’t like to be pigeon holed; enjoy the diversity of tasks and people; enjoy being a leader Key message It’s okay to not know what to do for a career for a while; stay open; keep exploring. How I discovered my path was by being obsessed with human experiences, following curiosity; follow my intuition on the market trends; wanting to be a leaders, and making friends along the way.
  • #21: Quote from a mentor
  • #23: Quote from a mentor
  • #25: Quote from a mentor
  • #29: This is why PMs get paid so much This is why we stay up late sometimes
  • #35: Link to the template here: https://trello.com/b/NXQ2pPbG