Pct a relational approach (2010)

The Person-Centred
Approach:
A Relational Therapy

Dave Mearns
www.davemearns.com

1

Contents
 Working at relational depth;
 Resonance;

 Client processes;

 Working with the client’s
‘configurations’ of self;
 Configuration Theory;

 Revising Rogers’ Self-Theory;

 The developmental agenda for the
therapist working at relational depth;
 ‘Existential Touchstones’;

 Working with Dominic and Rick. 2

RELATIONAL DEPTH
in counselling/psychotherapy

3

Mearns, D. & Cooper, M. (2005).
Working at Relational Depth in
Counselling and Psychotherapy.
London: Sage. ISBN 0-7619-
4458-3

4

A Schema of Working at
Relational Depth

A B C
Offering Negotiating Contact with
relational client processes the existential
depth and dynamics process

5

THE PROCESS OF
RELATIONAL DEPTH
 The counsellor’s humanity is focused upon the
client;
 the client lets himself experience that
humanity;
 this creates a huge therapeutic space/safety
for the client;
 the client experiences himself more fully;

 On an on-going basis the client is more
sensitive to himself-in-relation.

6

CLIENTS’ VIEWS
 I had been in counselling twice before, but
this time it was quite different – this
counsellor was more ‘real’.
 It felt like I didn’t need to be so ready to
defend myself.
 I found myself saying things that I had
never said before.

7

 It felt so liberating – I didn’t have to
pretend the way I always do.
 I felt hope for the first time
 I felt two different things – I felt that I might
believe in this person – and I felt sick to
my stomach.
 I was scared – scared that I might have to
trust her.

8

 I realised that what I had done before in
counselling wasn’t really getting to the
heart of things.
 There is a difference between really
risking and playing at therapy.
 Even just the experience of that first
session with her made me think A LOT
about how I am as a counsellor.

9

Encounter, not
invasion

10

Two Aspects of
Relational Depth
 ‘moments’ of relational depth;

 relational depth experienced as a
continuing relationship

11

‘Presented Dimensions’
of Self

12

‘ Approach/ Avoidance’
towards being met at
relational depth

13

Disguises, Clues,
Lace Curtains and
Safety Screens

14

Creating the conditions for
meeting the client at relational
depth

 High levels of the ‘therapeutic
conditions’ in mutually enhancing
interaction.
 The ‘stillness’ and ‘fearlessness’ of the
therapist.
15

Two aims in offering the client an
engagement at relational depth

 ‘Listening to the expressing rather
than the expression’

 ‘Meeting the client inside his
experiencing’

16

‘ Listening to the Expressing/
Entering the experiencing’
 Tony: I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t
…..
 Bill: No, ….. you can’t.
 Tony: No one can.
 Bill: (Silence)
 Tony: (Thumping his fist on the floor and
screaming) I need to kill myself.

17

 Bill: (Silence)
 Tony: I need to go ….. I must go ….. I
must go away from me.
 Bill: (Silence)
 Tony: I don’t know how to do it.
 Bill: It’s hard, Tony …. It’s hard …..
like
there’s no way.

18

 Tony: No way ….. no way ….. How do
people do it?
 Bill: God knows Tony.
 Tony: Can you warm me Bill?
 Bill: (Puts his arm round Tony).

19

Much later Bill comments on this
meeting:

It’s an example of how you can be with
someone and have conversation
without having any idea what it’s about.
Yet all the time you can feel them -
and be with them feeling. It was weeks
later that I found out the ‘content’ of
this meeting…

20

Tony was ‘being’ the part of him which
had done some bad stuff. In war people
can do bad stuff that they can’t live with
later. Tony was feeling that part - he
wanted to get rid of it - to kill it or for it to
go away. But, of course, there was no
way to do it - that’s what we were in.

21

Relational depth is
about the quality of
the relational contact,
not the quantity

22

Relational Depth in
Everyday Life

 Doug the teacher
 Mhairi the nurse

 Lillian the social worker

23

Contents
 Resonance;
 Working with the client’s ‘configurations’ of
self;
 The developmental agenda for the therapist
working at relational depth;
 Working with Dominic and Rick. 24

RESONANCE
Through self-awareness in therapy the therapist
becomes conscious of their experiencing, ie. the
immediate present flow of experiences. What they
experience is resonance to both the client’s world
and/or for their own world. Resonance…means
the echo in the therapist triggered by the
relationship with the client (p.181).
[Schmid, P.F. & Mearns, D. J. (2006). Being-With and Being-Counter:
Person-centered psychotherapy as an in-depth co-creative process of
personalization. Person-Centered and Experiential Psychotherapies , 5(3):
174-190].
25

RESONANCE
 SELF-RESONANCE

 EMPATHIC RESONANCE (concordant
and complementary)

 PERSONAL RESONANCE (relational
resonance)

26

SELF-RESONANCE

Client: Shall I love him or hate him? I
don’t know, I am confused.
Therapist: [thinking of his own partner]
Good question! You never
know. (p. 183)

27

CONCORDANT EMPATHIC
RESONANCE
Therapist: [primarily sensing the client’s
confusion] There are mixed
feelings in you. You experience
affection, you experience dislike
and these are in you at one and
the same time. (p. 183)
28

COMPLEMENTARY EMPATHIC
RESONANCE
Therapist: [sensing primarily that the client
gradually has been growing tired of
the person he talks about]….or even
forget about him? (p. 183)

29

PERSONAL (RELATIONAL)
RESONANCE
Therapist: [personally touched by his client’s
bewilderment]…..which makes me
aware how much I truly hope you
come to the right decision for you
this time. (p. 185)

30

When self-resonance spills over…

 Box 6.3 on page 141 of Mearns, D. &
Thorne, B. (2007). Person-Centred
Counselling in Action. Third edition.
London: Sage.

31

Rani and Tariq
My refugee client, Tariq, was talking about
his experience of torture. My own personal
experience of being tortured generally helps
me to stay close to such a client – I can stay
close when many other counsellors would
be in terror. But this time it got too close to
my own experience and I lost control. As he
described the detail of his torture I felt my
own. I felt every cut of the knife. I came out
in a cold sweat and I started shaking. His
32

voice drifted into the background and
the sadistic smiles of my own torturers
came face-to-face with me. For a while
Tariq didn’t notice me and he carried
on. Then he slowly ground to a silence
and just looked at me. I forced myself
to speak. I had to tell him about me –
not the detail of my story – but what I
was experiencing there and then:

33

Rani: Tariq, I’m shaking with fear.I need to
say it because it is so powerful that I’m
fading away from you. I too have been
tortured – a long time ago. For years it has
not affected me, in fact, it sometimes helps.
But just now it flooded me. I was taken over
by my fear – the enormity of my fear. I’m
hoping that by saying it, it will subside. I can
feel it subsiding as I speak. I’m sorry that I
couldn’t stay with you.
Tariq: I understand.

Rani: I suspect that you do.

34

Contents
 Resonance;
self;
 Working with Dominic and Rick.
35

Relational Depth

A B C
depth and dynamics process

36

Client Processes

Existential Process’

‘Psychotic Process’ (Prouty)
‘Fragile Process’ (Warner)
Restricting
‘Dissociated Process’ (Warner)
Existential
‘Ego-Syntonic Process’
Contact
‘Transference’

37

Warner, M. (2000). Person-centred
therapy at the difficult edge: A
developmentally based model of fragile
and dissociated process. In D. Mearns
and B. Thorne Person-Centred
Therapy Today (pp. 144-171). London:
Sage.
38

The Developmental Basis of
 The person has survived a parenting in
which love and acceptance was not
reliable. Negative experiences would
follow when positives might be expected
– there was no way to rely on the
relationship. Ridicule, hate or abuse
would come when love might be
expected.
39

 To survive, the person needed to:
• Find ways to control the relationship

• Find ways to control themselves in

relationship.
• Withdraw their emotional attachment.

40

‘ Sandy’
The fellow who has a parent who is
sometimes nice and sometimes horrible
thinks that is the way the world is. Now, in
my own case, that is how it was. At the
time when I came to the school I think the
difficulty was, among other things, that I
was confronted by Patti [his counsellor],
who was an exceptionally fine human
being and a very affectionate

41

and decent human being. I wasn’t able to
accept the affection, which caused even
more anger because everyone likes to
accept affection. But if you condition yourself
to not accepting affection because, if by
accepting it you only let yourself in for the
next downfall, you put yourself in a position
where you don’t dare to hope that the
affection is for real and you keep testing

42

to find out if it is for real, and that’s the
process where, step by step, you find out
whether it is. In a sense, maybe, that
explains my own need to hurt them,
whether or not the affection would
continue to come…

Bettelheim, B. (1987). ‘The man who
cared for children’. Horizon. London: BBC
Television.

43

Ego-Syntonic Process in
Adult Life
The person’s self-protective systems
become generalised to other relationships
(cf Sterne’s ‘RIGs’ – ‘Representations of
Interactions that have become
Generalised’). The seriousness of the
resulting pattern can vary hugely. The
person may become:

44

 popular but ‘unreachable’;
 alone and lonely;
 controlling;
 cold;
 cruel;
 homicidal and suicidal;

45

In its mild expression their ego-syntonic
process leads the person to be
confused and scared in relationships.
They know that things go wrong for
them and they come to expect things to
go wrong. But they genuinely do not
understand why they go wrong. They
have done their best. They have even
tried to think about what the other
person wants, and be that (within
limits). But it always goes wrong.

46

In a more serious expression they attract
relations but fail in relationships because,
ultimately, they have to be so controlling.
They need to define the reality in the
relationship and protect against its changing.
They provide well on a material level, function
well enough in more superficial relationships,
but they must not make themselves
existentially vulnerable. Usually they are
genuinely surprised when the other person
leaves them. Again, they had done their best.
47

In an extreme expression, the person
is dangerous to themselves and
others. They are so threatened by
relationship that their self-protection
manifests itself not in confusion or
controlling, but in detachment and
even violence. Their fear is so
profound and the degree of adjustment
they have obtained so tenuous that
detachment and even destruction (of
self or other) are the only existential
‘protections’ they have left.
48

The ‘Hook’ in Ego-Syntonic
Process
 ‘But there really was someone there to
love – I saw him – I saw him often’.
 ‘It’s not just a “rescuer” thing – it’s much
stronger than that’. I couldn’t let him go
because there were times I really saw him.

49

 ‘It’s so frustrating – sometimes she was a
wonderful person – she was the fullest
human being anyone could want…but
then it would evaporate in tears and
anger’.
 ‘He couldn’t let me in. For 20 years he
couldn’t let me in. We could even talk
about how he couldn’t let me in – Maybe
that was it – at times he wasn’t who he
was’.

50

Client Processes

‘Existential Process’

‘Psychotic Process’ (Prouty)
‘Fragile Process’ (Warner)
Restricting
‘Dissociated Process’ (Warner)
Existential
Contact
‘Existential Disconnection’
‘ Transference’

51

Getting beyond
Transference

 ‘A part of me is not sure she should trust
you, but…’.
 ‘I can’t believe I’ve just talked about me,
like that, with an old man like you.’

52

‘Difficult process’ rarely defines the
whole of the person. Often there is a
dissonant part that houses a different
conception of self. Its appearance
can be erratic and its voice very
small.

53

Relational Depth

A B C
(including ‘difficult’ process
depth
process)

54

WHAT IS MEANT BY THE TERM
‘EXISTENTIAL PROCESS’?
 It is unique to every person;
 It can only be comprehended by taking a
phenomenological perspective;
 It may contain a rich mixture of self-
experiences, self-assumptions, hopes,
fears, fantasies, terrors, experiences in
relation to others, assumptions about
others and deeply held values.
55

 It can contain powerful internal conflicts
and it can also provide conflict for
dimensions of the presentational self;
 Its elements and dynamics are
experienced by the person as more
‘fundamental’ to their existence than the
aspects of their presentational self;
 Consequently, they are closely guarded.
To be judged by another on the basis of a
self we are presenting is one thing, but to
be judged for what we believe is our
essence is existentially dangerous.
56

SANDRA

I had so much hate inside me. I could never
show it in its raw state to anyone. It came
out in lots of ways but I could not show it in
the way it was to me. I could not show the
bile, the vindictiveness, the ‘foaming at the
mouth’ invective. I could not show it the
way it was to me – I could not even show it
to me the way it was to me. It was too
destructive.
57

PAUL
I can’t describe how I am to me in ways that
will make sense to others. It goes around my
head and body in dream-like waves, at
times coming into the foreground and then
receding. It is all ugly. It is about how I am
all ugly – how, at my core, I am rotten. I can
feel the maggots crawling around inside me,
eating me up. Perhaps they will eat the rot
and help me? How could I show this to
anyone else/ How can I allow myself to see
it? 58

BERNARD
Sometimes the real me watches myself at
work. It sees the smooth operator, totally
confident and blustering others with my
confidence. It is as though it is a
magnification of the opposite of who I really
am, Underneath, all I am is a crying little
boy. I am curled up, rocking and sobbing.
My face is puffed up with a lifetime of
sobbing. My eyes are permanently closed – I
can barely endure the pain of what it is to be
me – I cannot open my eyes to see anyone
else in case I see them seeing me. 59

Working with the Client in
his Existential Process
 He gives you his self as he
experiences his self.
 What he gives is not dominated by

relational self- protective strategies
 He finds it impossible to lie.

60

Striving to meet at Relational Depth
with the Client in her Existential
Process
Sandie: Do you really want to know me?
Like, do you want to meet the ‘me’
that I am to myself?
Dave: Yes, I want to meet all of you.
(Pause)
Sandie: I kill my babies.
Dave: Is that meant to put me off?
Sandie: No, it’s just what I do.
61

Dave: (serious eye contact) You ‘kill your
babies’ ….. It’s a difficult thing even for
me to say. I have to ‘steel’ myself to say
the words. They are hard words for me
to say - I think that’s why I was glib.
Sandie: It’s what I do - the words are me -
I’ve killed three babies inside me.
Dave: You sound ….. You sound ‘flat’
about it - on the outside at least - I don’t
know what you are ‘inside’ about it …..?

62

Sandie: I need to feel ‘flat’ inside about it
as well.
Dave: Yes ….. I think I can understand
that ….. I think I really can ….. it’s
the only way ….. to …..
Sandie: Survive.
Dave: Yes.
Sandie: Isn’t that funny …..
Dave: That when you feel as you do, you
still want to survive?
Sandie: Yes - I’ve never thought about
that before.
63

Striving to meet at Relational Depth
with the Client in his Existential
Process
Bobby: I’ve been feeling really bad things
Dave - really bad things.
Dave: Tell me Bobby.
Bobby: I don’t know if I can Dave ….. I don’t
know if I can.
Dave: This is really tough for you Bobby - I
can see that in your face. You’ve tried
to make yourself tell me by bringing it
up. But it’s still maybe not possible. I
say ‘tell me Bobby’ like I usually do
64

….. but this is not ‘usual’ stuff - this
is ….. different …..
(Pause)
Bobby: Dave ….. I want to kill me.
(Long silence)
Bobby: All the roads lead there - I could
make a good job of it too.
Dave: I bet you could, Bobby - I’m scared
to use my imagination.
Bobby: It would be one thing I could do
well.

65

Dave: What are all the feelings Bobby -
how do ‘all the roads lead here’?
Bobby: I don’t know if I want to go into it
Dave - I’ve got to this point and I
feel a kind of ….. peace.
Dave: Christ Bobby, this is tough for me. I
knew you were going to say that. I
want to stay with you in that and I
want to pull you away from that.
I’m no use to you unless I can stay
with you in it.

66

Bobby: That’s not true Dave - it’s nice
for me to hear that. Anyway,
you couldn’t stop me.
Dave: I really knew you were going to
use that ‘peace’ word. I could
feel how ‘all the roads lead there’. I
can see how that is a conclusion for
you ….. and a retribution for you …..
It’s the same as cutting yourself used
to be for you, isn’t it?
67

Bobby: Yes, it has the same sense of
‘punishment’ and ‘control’ ….. Do
you understand how important it is
for me to face this?
Dave: Yes, I do. You must face the
question that perhaps the only way
to make retribution is to execute
yourself.
(Long silence)
Dave: You will have worked it all out?
Bobby: In detail, Dave - in detail.
(Long silence)
Bobby: It’s funny to feel so alone, yet with
someone.
(Long silence)
68

When a client is met at relational
depth and enters his existential
process, he takes an ‘inside’ view of
his Self. From that perspective he
sometimes experiences his Self in
terms of different ‘parts’ rather than
a single ‘whole’.

69

Contents
 Resonance;
self;
70

‘ Taking an “Inside” View of
me’
When you are close to me I go ‘inside’
myself - and see the different parts of
me. From the outside I look confused
and self-defeating - I don’t look alive at
all. But ‘inside’ me I see the different
parts in their own right. I see the scared
and angry ‘little girl’ and her ‘big sister’
who bosses her around, but who really
loves and protects her. Both of these
parts are very alive.

71

‘ Configurations’
Chapter 6: ‘The nature of “configurations”
within Self’.
Chapter 7: ‘Person-centred therapy with
“configurations” of Self’.

In Mearns, D. & Thorne, B. (2000)
Person-Centred Therapy Today: New
Frontiers in Theory and Practice. London:
Sage.
72

Definition
A ‘configuration’ is a hypothetical
construct denoting a coherent pattern
of feelings, thoughts and preferred
behavioural responses symbolised or
pre-symbolised by the person as
reflective of a dimension of existence
within the Self.

73

Definition of ‘Configuration’
(Non-Jargon Version)

Sometimes people experience
themselves as having different ‘parts’ to
their Self. Each part, or ‘configuration’, is
well-developed, with its own feelings,
thoughts and ways of behaving which
may be quite different from other parts.

74

Sam: A 23 year old
Traumatised ‘Veteran’
‘I walk around watching people and myself.
I watch myself watching myself. I have a
“me” that I use for everyday life. It does all
the “normal’ things that other people do - it
goes to work - it talks with other people - it
goes to the store - it even makes love with
my wife. It carries on as though nothing has
happened. And I watch it. I stand in the
background and wonder how I can do all that
stuff’.
75

SOME CONFIGURED
CLIENTS little princess
Mary: Most of the time I am a
– all sweetness and light. Butter wouldn’t
melt in my mouth. My little princess is
friends with everyone and in general
people treat her well. She developed in
my childhood and she is still around. But I
also have a hard edge – as hard as the
little princess is soft. I call this part vixen
me. I shiver when I think about her. She
would scratch your eyes out – don’t mess
with her. She too arose in my childhood,
for good reasons. 76

Joe: I have strong me and weak me. For
years strong me hated weak me but that
has changed during counselling. I
understand now how weak me came
about – it wasn’t just that he was ‘pathetic’
– he was scared, deeply scared. Strong
me helped me to survive but I need weak
me too – he has parts of me that strong
me doesn’t.

77

Mary and Joe are familiar with their
configurations and have even given
them names that reflect their main
themes. For other people there is less
familiarity, less clarity, but still a sense
of pluralism, as with Teri who, in
surviving a hostage situation, had
discovered another dimension of her
self…

78

Teri: At first I just cried. I felt that that was all
I could do. Then something happened – I
stopped crying and became cool, clear
and determined. I started to work out
strategy. I had read about the fact that
more hostages survived when they made
themselves ‘known’ to their captors. So I
stopped snivelling and started to engage
these people. I was amazed – this wasn’t
me speaking, but, in fact, it was. I wasn’t
‘acting’ – I was being ‘me’, but a part of
me that I didn’t recognise.

79

PLURALIST THEORIES

Transactional Analysis (Berne)
Voices (Hermans, Stiles)
Parts (Schwartz)
Sub-personalities (Rowan)
Complexes (Jung)
Objects (Fairbairn)

80

Configurations are not
‘metaphors’ - they are
phenomenological realities

‘fairytale princess me’ Vs I am as innocent as a
‘fairytale princess’

‘vixen me’ Vs I behaved like a
‘vixen’

CONFIGURATIONS METAPHORS
81

Configurations are NORMAL
ways to hold dissonant
material

82

BUT REMEMBER…

Configurations are NOT
meaningful to everyone

83

TWO COMMON NARRATIVES
CARRIED BY
CONFIGURATIONS

SELF-EXPRESSION

SELF-PROTECTION

84

Self-expressive
Configurations

 The part of me that wants more out of
life.
 The bit of me that isn’t satisfied.
 The voice within me that screams: ‘Is
this all there is?’

85

Self-protective
Configurations

 The ‘me’ that just wants to curl up and
do absolutely nothing.
 The part that wants to go back.
 The bit that protects me by sabotaging
new things.

86

Person-Centred Therapy with
Configurations of Self
(See Mearns & Thorne: Person-Centred
Therapy Today, Chapter 7)
 Staying close to the client’s symbolisation;
 Listen for the parts, but don’t invent
them;
 Avoiding ‘zero-sum’ responding;
 Empathic mediation: helping the parts to
hear each other;
 Multi-directional partiality: prizing all the
parts;
 Therapist’s use of her configurational Self.
87

Staying close to the
client’s symbolisation

88

Of course, there has always been
the part of me which is the dutiful
daughter and the other one which is
the delinquent but there is another
sense of me as well ..... I can’t
grasp it ..... it is something to do with
sadness .....

89

Listen for the parts
but don’t invent them

90

LISTEN FOR THEM

Bill: Finally I’m going to be free of John! I
can’t wait to get him out of my life
….(stops talking and looks down)
Dave: Something else Bill?
Bill: When I said that, I felt like crying.
Dave: Is the feeling still with you?

91

Bill: Yes - it’s in the background. It’s
behind everything I do.
Dave: It’s behind everything you do…
Bill: It’s always there….always crying.
Dave: Always with you and always crying.
Bill: Yes, but only sometimes do I hear it.
It never says anything. It only cries.
92

BUT DON’T INVENT THEM
Client: there is a part of me that is
dreadfully vulnerable and sad
….. she has only a very small
voice ….. so I don’t hear her
very often.
Therapist: So I wonder what this ‘hurt
little girl’ has to say to us
Client: I don’t know ….. I don’t know …..

93

Therapist: From what you said before it
sounds as though she is not just
a ‘hurt little girl’ but an ‘abused
little girl …..?
Client: I don’t know ….. I don’t know …..

94

Avoiding ‘Zero-Sum’
Responding

Client: Part of me feels x ….. and
part of me feels not x.
Therapist: So, you are conflicted about
how you feel?

95

‘ Empathic Mediation’: Being Open
to the Whole Client helps the
Parts to Hear Each Other

The client, Bobby, struggles with the
confusion around two parts of his Self. One
part, which he calls ‘mental me’, used to
protect him and control his existence
through the use of extreme violence
towards others and towards himself. But
there is a newly emerging part, ‘sad me’,
which is beginning to flood into his
existence:
96

 Bobby: I cut myself with my knife but still
the sadness overwhelms me.
 Dave: Cutting yourself was your way of
staying in ‘control’.
 Bobby: Yes - but it’s not working - that
‘mental’ part of me can no longer keep it
together. He’s in deep shit - his time is
past.
 Dave: And what does he feel …..?

97

 Bobby: ….. Scared ….. he’s so scared.
He thinks that if he loses control I will
be done for ….. He’s almost crying.
 Dave: That’s unusual for him …..
 Bobby: God yes - maybe he’s not so
different from the ‘sad’ part of me …..
the sad part can understand crying …..
God, that’s the one thing he can
understand.

98

 Dave: Can he understand your fear
as well?
 Bobby: ….. yes ….. I was good at
‘holding things together’. If I can’t hold
things together, I might be …..
 Dave: You might be?
 Bobby: Dead. The only way to survive
in my world was to be really ‘mental’ -
to kill and to mutilate first ….. But it
comes from fear …. fear and sadness
are not so far apart.
99

‘ Multi Directional Partiality’
Honouring all the parts of
the Client’s Self

Therapist: It seems to me that most of this
session, so far, we have being hearing
from that part of you which you called ‘the
strong part of me’. You have also
identified other parts of you that were
quite different from ‘the strong part of me’
- you called them ‘lotus blossom’ and ‘the
frightened part of me’.
100

Is it meaningful to check-in with those
parts - what do you think?
Monica: Fuck them - they are in the past -
they are history.
Therapist: Right - let me catch up - this is
new. Is it like they are, really, ‘history’, or
is it that you would want them to be
history?
Monica: Fuck you - you won’t let them go,
will you.

101

Therapist: I am not going to let them go if they
are parts of you - I am not going to dismiss
any of you.
Monica: Who pays you anyway! (with humour)
Therapist: Good point ….. Actually, I don’t
know who pays me. Who pays me?
Monica: Clever bastard.

102

Person-Centred Therapy with
Configurations of Self
(See Mearns & Thorne: Person-Centred
Therapy Today, Chapter 7)
 Staying close to the client’s symbolisation;
 Listen for the parts, but don’t invent
them;
 Avoiding ‘zero-sum’ responding;
 Empathic mediation: helping the parts to
hear each other;
 Multi-directional partiality: prizing all the
parts;
 Therapist’s use of her configurational Self.
103

Contents
 A schema of working at relational depth;
 Resonance;
self;
104

 Mearns, D. & Thorne, B. (2000).
‘Advancing person-centred theory’.
Chapters 6&9 in Person-Centred
Therapy Today: New Frontiers in
Theory and Practice. London: Sage.
 Mearns, D. (2002). Further theoretical
propositions in regard to Self Theory
within Person-centered therapy.
Person-Centered and Experiential
Psychotherapies. 1(1&2): 14-27.
 Mearns, D. & Thorne (2007). The new
chapter 2 in Person-Centred
Counselling in Action (3rd edition).
London: Sage.
105

Proposition 5

Configurations may be established
around introjections about self.

106

Proposition 6

Configurations may also be
established around dissonant self-
experiences.

107

Proposition 7

Formative configurations assimilate
other consistent elements.

108

Proposition 8

Configurations inter-relate and
reconfigure.

109

PAST TENSE DERIVATIVE PRESENT TENSE DERIVATIVE

EMERGING
‘ME AS ‘ME AS I
SYNERGY
I WAS’ AM NOW’
‘ANOTHER
ME’
CONFLICT
BIFURCATION DERI VATIVE
‘ME AS I’VE
ALWAYS ‘THE
KNOWN CONFLICT CREEP’
ME’
PROTECTION

‘FUCKED
ME’
Alexander Map
110

‘ Configuration Theory’: Using
theory in the person-centred
approach

 Theory does not predict the behaviour or
the experience of the client.
 Theory expands the imagination of the
therapist.

111

‘General’ Psychological Theory
+
‘Individual’ Psychological Theory

112

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
CONFIGURATIONS AND THE
PARTS IN DISSOCIATED
PROCESS
 Greater separation of dissociated parts
 More personification in the parts
 Information blockage between parts

113

Configurations may develop
into dissociated parts
(Warner & Mearns, 2008)

114

Reflecting upon our own
‘Configurations’ of Self
 What might be the different ‘parts’ within
my Self? - If they had a ‘voice’ what
would they each ‘say’?
 What were my ‘parts’ at earlier times in
my life? - What did they ‘say’ then?
 How do/did these different ‘parts’ relate
together?
115

BUT REMEMBER…

Configurations are NOT
meaningful to everyone

116

Contents
 A schema of working at relational depth;
 Resonance;
self;
117

Rogers, C.R. (1951). A theory of
personality and behavior. In
Client-Centered Therapy (pp.
481 – 533). Boston: Houghton
Mifflin.

118

Rogers, C.R. (1959). A theory of
therapy, personality and
interpersonal relationships as
developed in the client-centered
framework. In S. Koch (ed.),
Psychology: A Study of a Science,
Volume 3: Formulations of the
Person and the Social Contract (pp.
184 – 256). New York: McGraw-Hill.

119

Rogers, C.R. (1963). The
actualizing tendency in relation to
“motives” and to consciousness.
In M. Jones (ed.), Nebraska
Symposium on Motivation (pp. 1 –
24). Lincoln: University of
Nebraska Press.
120

Rogers’ ‘California’
Period

A ‘Unitary’ Theory
121

The ‘value-added’ actualising
tendency
 Feelings valued over thoughts
 Non-self-conscious ‘being’ valued over
‘considered action
 ‘Free-expression’ valued over ‘censoring’
 ‘Radical’ choices valued over
‘conservative choices
 “Volume-up” expression of feeling valued
over ‘volume-down’ expression of feeling
122

COULSON, W. (1987). Reclaiming
Client-Centered Counseling from the
Person-Centered Movement.
Unpublished paper.

Center for Enterprising Families, P.O.
Box 134, Comptche, Ca 95427, USA.

123

Reconfiguring Rogers’
Concept of the Self

124

Rogers (1959: 200)

Self = Self-Concept

125

Mearns & Thorne (2000)

Self = Self-Concept
+ Edge of
Awareness
Material

126

A Dialogical Person-
Centred
Theory of the Self

127

‘ Growthful’ Configurations
(‘self-expressive’)

‘ Not for growth’
Configurations
(‘self-protective’)
128

Proposition 1

The actualising tendency is the
sole motivational force.

129

THE ACTUALISING TENDENCY
IS NOT ‘POSITIVE’
SHEILA is unsettled in her relationship with
Maureen. The relationship has lasted fifteen
years despite the considerable age
difference. But during the past couple of
years Sheila is placing less value on the
security the relationship has always offered
and is craving a more exciting lifestyle.

130

NIGEL was a prisoner of his father’s physical
and emotional abuse throughout his first 14
years. His father would ceremonially tie him
up and beat him once a week on some
pretext – the slightest piece of disobedience
could bring out his father’s belt. Nor were
the beatings only physical – when Nigel
showed signs of doing well at school he
became subject to a torrent of insults. Nigel
survived by ‘going underground’ as a
person. Now, at

131

22 years of age, he runs a drug empire.
He tightly controls his operation and
the people in it, exerting authority at
times with considerable public cruelty.

(Mearns, D. & Thorne, B. 2007. Person-
Centred Counselling in Action, third edition.
London: Sage. Chapter 2.)

132

Proposition 2
The promptings of the actualising tendency
inspire their own resistance within the social
life-space of the person. A working label for
this resistance is the term ‘social mediation’.

133

 I could do more with my life but I am
scared to lose what I have.

 I need to stop this road – I can see
where it points and I don’t want it – not
yet anyway.

134

 I fought my way out of a relationship
previously, and I lost more than I ever
imagined.

 Part of me says ‘go for it’ and part of me
says ‘watch it’ – I need to stay with
‘watch it’ for now.

135

 I look at what other people have got
and I want it like a child wants
everything. But my child isn’t going to
make all my decisions.

 Everything seemed to point in the
direction of leaving the job – I needed to
be free of it. But my family would have
lost too much – and that would mean
me losing too much. So I rolled up my
sleeves and made the best of it.
136

Proposition 3

A psychological ‘homeostasis’ develops
between the drive of the actualising tendency
and the restraint of social mediation. The
configuring and re-configuring of this
homeostasis is the actualising process.

137

‘In this revision of the theory, the central
concept becomes the actualising process
which is described by the homeostasis of
the imperatives of the actualising
tendency and social mediation within
different areas of the person’s social life
space and the reconfiguring of that
homeostasis to respond to changing
circumstances’.

(Person-Centred Therapy Today: p184)
138

Proposition 4

‘Disorder’ is caused when the person
becomes chronically stuck within
his/her own actualising process such
that the homeostatic balance cannot
reconfigure to respond to changing
circumstances.

139

‘ A Tyranny of
Growth’

140

“After countless years of going against
my instinct and fitting into other
people’s wishes I finally broke free.
For a time after that I was impossible
to live with – I couldn’t compromise at
all.”

141

“It’s like I couldn’t go against my view
of events and what was right for me
in the moment. Having finally got
hold of myself I wasn’t going to let go
– I suppose I was scared I would lose
myself again.”

142

“I can see that my sense of myself isn’t
working. Other people are giving back
a different view of myself, and they are
pretty unanimous. They say that I look
‘cold and detached’, when I feel ‘warm’.
It is difficult to know who to trust. Either
they share the same
143

delusion or I have a huge blind spot
that I can’t see past. It is really difficult
to go against my sense of myself – I
have no sense of being wrong. But
these are good people – I need to
pause awhile.”

144

Counselling in the school system of
Fukuoka, Japan.
Morita, Kimura, Ide, Hirai, Murayama.

The student client is not only part of his
community

His community is part of him.
145

Inayat, Q. (2005). The Islamic concept of self,
Counselling Psychology Review, 20: 2-10.

Proctor, G., Cooper, M., Sanders, P. &
Malcolm, B. (eds.) (2006). Politicizing the
Person-Centred Approach. Ross-on-Wye:
PCCS Books.

146

Contents
 Resonance;
self;
147

The Developmental Agenda for
the Therapist Working at
Relational Depth
 broadening our experience of
humanity ;
 expanding the self available in the
therapy room
- configurations
- ‘existential touchstones’

148

Broadening our experience of
humanity
 experiencing and exploring diversity;
 expanding imagination
 facing fears, prejudice
 finding out about other people’s
experiences
 expanding our life experience

149

 ‘Eventually I realised that if I was going to
work professionally as a counsellor, I had
better find out something about the other
half of humanity. So I started to work with
men!’
 ‘I never actively accepted myself as
“homophobic”, but I was. Joining the
men’s group soon blew that away’.

150

 ‘When it would come to the edge of
meeting the depths of my clients’
despair I would always pull back. I got
over that edge, initially, through reading
about people’s experiences of despair.
That would take me into my tears – and
closer to my sense of my own
existence.’
151

 ‘An experience which helped me to
sustain myself [in the work with ‘Rick’]
was attending an informal ‘rap’ group of
veterans….I used that group to stay
connected with the kinds of
experiencing they spoke about.’
(Mearns & Cooper, 2005: 107)

152

Relational Depth

 expanding our experience of humanity;

therapy room
- configurations

153

The Therapist’s use of
their own
configurational self?

154

Working all together with ‘Clair’
Extract 1

Dave 1: I really don’t understand why you
are leaving the job.
Clair 1: No, I knew you wouldn’t.
Dave 2: You mean you knew that I wouldn’t
understand it?
Clair 2: Yes ….. I’ve seen it for ages. We
are o.k. when we are working on
my strong Self - that work has been

155

great - I wouldn’t take anything
away from it. But my ‘little girl’
isn’t so sure about you.
Dave 3: She doesn’t trust me.
Clair 3: She doesn’t think you want to
know her ….. She is pretty scared
you know.
156

Dave 4: (pause) I suppose we haven’t spent
enough time on her. (pause) I guess I
didn’t hear her very well - I didn’t
realise how bad she felt. I see now
that I didn’t hear her very well.
Clair 4: I didn’t let her come out very often with
you. Maybe I thought you wouldn’t like
me if I really showed you her.
Dave 5: And perhaps I wasn’t as open to her as
I could have been …..

157

Clair 5: Well, she has got to come out now.
She needs to become a big girl now. So I
am holding her hand and walking her out.
Dave 6: And what are you feeling, little girl?
Clair 6: I am scared ….. and I am angry. I
am not sure if I can trust you ….. But I
want to trust you.
Dave 7: I want to apologise to you for not
really listening to you until now.

158

Extract 2 (two sessions later)

Clair 1: It is better now, in here. It feels as
though there are four of us working
together.
Dave 1: You mean, two of you and two of
me?
Clair 2: Yes.
Dave 2: The two parts of you, you have called
your ‘strong Self’ and your ‘little girl’.
But you also sense two parts to me
here?
159

Clair 3: Yes, don’t you?
Dave 3: Yes, but I haven’t given them
names yet - in here at least - what is your
sense of them?
Clair 4: One is watching over everything that
is happening. He is pretty competent, but
he is also nervous. The other is not so
used to being here but he has been
invited. He has got a softness and
vulnerability which is really good for me.
He helps me to be ‘soft’ with myself.

160

Dave 4: He helps you to be soft with
yourself …..?
Clair 5: When it was only your ‘strong,
competent’ self that was here - then my
strong self just got together with you and
there was no space for ‘softies’ - no space
for ‘softies’ in either of us.
Dave 5: And it is important that we touch that
‘softness’ in you …..?
161

Clair 6: It is important that we are all here,
together. My parts both have strength -
but they need to ‘get along’ together, like
yours do.
Dave 6: Maybe I am more ‘tentative’, than I
look, my ‘soft’ part kind of feels okay with
this but is a bit unsure.
Clair 7: That is what ‘soft parts’ are like, silly!
Being ‘unsure’ is part of being ‘soft’.

162

Dave 7: I think you are more
experienced at this than me, Clair.
Clair 8: Never mind, we’ll help each other
along!

163

Relational Depth

 expanding our experiences of humanity;

therapy room
- configurations
164

Definition of ‘existential
touchstones’
Life events and self-experiences that
have given us glimpses of different
dimensions of ourself and which we can
enter to put us into a feeling state that is
closer to our client’s present experiencing
and thus act as a ‘bridge’ for us into a
fuller meeting with our client.
Mearns, D. & Thorne, B. (2007). Person-Centred
Counselling in Action. Third edition, p.147, London:
Sage. 165

Existential Touchstones:
Vulnerabilities turned into strengths
Three counsellors give us glimpses of
earlier, difficult experiences that have
become existential touchstones for them in
their work:

 The memory of my own earlier aloneness is
something I can touch to bring me closer
to my existentially withdrawn clients.

166

 It took me years to get over my own early
experiences of humiliation – but now it
doesn’t frighten me any more – now I can
even use it as a way of getting closer to
my client’s experience of abuse.
 I don’t think you ever ‘get over’ a major
bereavement. But it gets to a point that it
deepens you as a person and helps you to
be with your client in their own depths.

167

Contents
 Resonance;
self;
168

WORKING WITH
‘DOMINIC’
Chapter 5 in Mearns, D. &
Cooper, M. (2005). Working at
Relational Depth in Counselling
and Psychotherapy. London:
Sage.

169

Dominic 1: [At the start of session 3]
D1 I shouldn’t have come today. I’ll go away if
you like.
T1 Because you’ve been drinking?
D2 Yeah – I’ve been drinking.
T2 Do you want to go or do you want to stay?
D3 I wouldn’t mind staying.
T3 I would like that too. But I’d like us to keep
the tape on like we usually do. Why I say
that is that I want us to have a record of
what happens – when you’re pissed it’s
easy to forget.

170

D4 Fine – I hadn’t realised it was on.
T4 Good that I mentioned it then.
D5 (Long pause) How do you feel about
me ….. now ….. here.
T5 Dom, I want to tell you that I feel
absolutely nothing about the fact
that you’ve been drinking. But you
asked how I felt about you, now,
here (pauses) I feel ….. a bit …..
‘scared’.
D6 ‘Scared’? 171

T6 It surprises me too ….. I guess it does
matter to me that you’ve been drinking
….. I’m scared in case we have to start
again. It’s like I feel that we’ve made a
really good connection ….. but will that
still be there …..today. That’s what
makes me a bit scared.
D7 Like it matters to you?
T7 Yes it does Dom.
D8 Like this isn’t just a ‘game’ to you?

172

T8 I think you know that, Dom. In fact,
I know you know that Dom.
D9 Yes – ‘sober me’ knows it, but does
‘drunk me’?!
T9 I don’t know. Does he? Do you?
D10 Big question – maybe I’ll need
another vodka before I can answer
that.
T10 Dom – be here – be here drunk – but
don’t play fucking games with me.
Neither you nor I deserve that.
173

D11 SILENCE
T11 SILENCE
D12 You’re really serious about this, aren’t
you?
T12 As ever.
D13 I’m sorry.
T13 Apology accepted - where should we
start today?
D14 We started long ago – this is me – this is
who I am.
174

T14 Yes – you’re right – I see – we started
at the beginning as usual – but the
start was different – because you
were different. Yes, I missed that.

175

Dominic 2: [Later in session 3]
D15 It’s not easy to live up to a ‘holy’
name.
T15 ‘Dominic’.
D16 Yes – a ‘good Catholic upbringing’
kept telling me how important my
name was.
T16 Like it told you what you should be?
D17 Yeah – but it was a fantasy – pure
fantasy ……………. pure …………….
fantasy.
176
T17 Their fantasy?

D18 Yeah ……………… It was like I didn’t
exist … you know?
T18 Like they had some image of you that
was so far from who you were that it
was like they were talking about
someone else.
D19 Got it in one. You’re good at this shit!
T19 Hope so. What are you with just now?
D20 (long pause) …. (looks directly at T)
……….. I don’t know what I’ m about.

177

T20 (looks intensely at D and moves
towards him, speaking slowly). That
sounds like a lot, ‘you–don’t–know–
what–you’re-about…’
D21 I’m so full of crap.
T21 … and …?
D22 I don’t know whether to believe
myself or not.
T22 Say more Dom.
D23 I’m just so full of crap.
178

T23 You don’t know whether to believe
yourself or not.
D24 I think I’m serious … sincere. But,
really, I’m only a drunk … a fuckin
drunk.
T24 You think that you are serious … and
sincere. But you are really, only, a
fuckin drunk.
D25 Yes.
T25 A fuckin drunk – that’s all you are.
D26 (tears welling up)
T26 A fuckin drunk. 179

D27 (hits fist on arm of chair in apparent
anger… and cries)
T27 Dom, you are angry… and you are
crying.
D28 I’m so fuckin full of shit (cries).
T28 (moves to Dominic and puts his arm
round him)
D29 (cries more and more)
T29 It feels like a lonely place.
D30 (looks up at T) Yes… (shivers).
T30 Cold, and lonely…
180

D31 The only warmth comes through the
bottle – whether it’s ‘single malt’ or cheap
vodka – it doesn’t matter.
T31 It still works – it still gives a feeling of
warmth.
D32 It does… I can’t describe it… I’m alive…
but it’s killing me… and everything I
love.
T32 Dom – can you really help me get hold of
this – It sounds really strong – like you
feel really ‘alive’ – that sounds real
powerful. But, then, it is also ‘killing’
you, and everything you love. 181

D33 One part of me is really ‘hooked’ on it
– it is the only ‘buzz’ I get and I can’t
get enough of it.
T33 And, there is another part…?
D34 The other part is a loving husband and
father…
T34 Yes…?
D35 Who is killing his family.
T35 You are carrying a lot… a helluva lot.
D36 And I can’t carry it any more.

182

T36 That sounds serious… No. I don’t mean
to be ‘glib’ – it really does sound like
you are serious.
D37 I’ve got to do something.
T37 ‘Do’? What would you ‘do’ Dom?
D38 Either give it up… or give it up.
T38 I think I understand… one ‘part’ – the
one that is really ‘hooked’ would give
up on your normal life… and the other
‘part’ – the one who is a ‘loving husband
and father’ would give up the booze.
183

D39 Most people don’t realize how
difficult a choice that is.
T39 Is it… does it feel like giving up on
‘living’ for the ‘life’ you have?
D40 Yes.
T40 SILENCE
D41 It feels like ‘living’ when you’re drunk
– but it isn’t really.
T41 SILENCE

184

D42 I’ve been scared of living – all my life
I’ve been scared of living. I’ve never felt
like other people – I’ve never felt ‘sure of
myself’ the way other people do. If you
feel ‘sure of yourself’ you can go out and
do things with your life. If you don’t
feel sure of yourself you can’t – you can’t
really do things with your life – you’ve
always got to make ‘safe’ choices –
choices that don’t really test you –
choices that aren’t really ‘living’.
185

T42 SILENCE
D43 And so, I have an ‘ordinary life’ – did you
see that film?
T43 ‘Ordinary Lives’ – yes.
D44 LONG SILENCE
T44 Are you stuck? Are you thinking about the
film?
D45 Yes – their ‘ordinary lives’ were blown
apart when something terrible happened.
They had taken the safe choices for so long
that they hadn’t developed the strength to
deal with real life.

186

T45 And you… what about you.
D46 Part of me tries to break free, but it also hasn’t
got experience – it doesn’t know how to do it.
T46 SILENCE
D47 SILENCE
T47 I am feeling sad for it. I think I am seeing it
better. It desperately wants to do something –
but it has been ‘scared of living’ for so long – it
doesn’t know what to do.
D48 So all I can do is to go into that feeling of being
sad – and get drunk. That’s the closest I can get
to ‘living’.
187

DOMINIC 3: [session 4]
[after spending time going through part of the
tape of session 3]

D49 It is difficult to listen to that.
T49 Why is that, Dom?
D50 Because I’m drunk.
T50 Yes – yes, you are drunk.
D51 I hate listening to it – it’s not me.
T51 It’s not you.
D52 SILENCE 188

T52 It’s not you.
D53 How can I be like that? How can I be
a drunk? How can I have let you tape
that.
T53 Dom… If you want, I can wipe that
tape right now.
D54 No…………………
No………………… It’s
me……………… It is me.
T54 It is you.
D55 ………….. but not a part of me I want.
T55 Do you recognise him? 189

D56 Sure… he’s only a bottle of vodka
away.
T56 Where should we go with this, Dom?
Where should we go with this right
now? Where are you with this right
now?
D57 I’ve got to meet him.
T57 You ‘heard’ him, didn’t you Dom…
you really ‘heard’ him.
D58 Yes… yes… I heard him.
T58 You are keeping him out… but, really
you heard him… 190

D59 I heard ‘me the drunk’. I hate him. I
cry for him. I cry with him. I am
him. He is part of me.
T59 And you feel you have ‘got to meet
him’.
D60 I don’t know what made me say that
– I hate him. When I’m sober I
believe he is gone forever. Why did
I say that ‘I have to meet him’?
T60 SILENCE
{Dominic meets T’s eyes}
191

D61 I have been running way from him
for years but what I need to do is to
meet him.
T61 SILENCE
D62 Let’s play some more of the tape.

192

DOMINIC 4: [later in session 4]

D63 [Dominic begins to cry as he listens to the
tape – particularly D34]
T63 SILENCE
D64 It’s like I’m listening to him – to me – to
that part of me, properly, for the first
time. I’ve been locked into antagonism
to him – antagonism and denial and
hate. I had to deny he was ‘really’ a
part of me. He was an evil drunk. But
he is a part of me, not just when I am
drunk, but every minute of every day –
193

he is a part of me. He is ‘sad’ me, ‘lost’
me, ‘desperate’ me, ‘crying’ me –
though I’m also crying now. It’s like
he’s with me now, and I’m not drunk
– nor am I going to get drunk… today.
T64 This sounds different – like you are
‘meeting’ him rather than ‘dismissing’
him.
D65 It feels strange – like I am excited but
also tense – this feels different. It’s not
like I imagined it. I came into therapy
to kill that drunk and now I am
194

listening to him and crying for
him/crying with him. He really is
part of me – a part that I have not
been open to – we had to be
separated by a bottle of vodka.
T65 SILENCE
D66 LONG SILENCE
T66 Where are you in your silence Dom?
D67 I have suddenly become aware that
you are here.
T67 And how is that for you – that I am
here – with you?
195

D68 The first feeling was an acute
embarrassment – but that quickly
passed. Now it feels good that you are
here – that you are sharing this with
me. I feel so excited but also tense –
might this pass? Could I lose it?
T68 ‘It’?
D69 This is the first time that ‘sober me’ has
met ‘drunk me’ in a way that he can
understand him.
T69 Can ‘drunk me’ also understand ‘sober
me’?
196

D70 Wow – that’s a big question – that’s
too much right now – that panics me.
T70 In case he can’t?
D71 Yes. It’s like I’ve won a lot at the
‘tables’ today and if we go too far I
might lose it.
T71 Fair enough. I thought I might be
pushing too far – I knew it was a big
step. In fact, ‘part’ of me told me not
to push… and another part – a kind of
‘delinquent’ part said ‘go for it’!
197

D72 Hah! So the therapist is crazy too – he
has different parts too.
T72 I’ve been ‘found out’ – guilty as
charged!
D73 Can we come back to your question
when I’ve lived with this for a while?
(smiles)
T73 Why can’t I be as wise as that!

SESSION ENDS
198

This session proved to be critical for
the therapy. ‘Sober’ Dominic had met
‘drunk Dominic’ without judgement
or denial but, instead, with genuine
understanding. In session 5 Dominic
described himself as a ‘partial drunk’,
‘part’ of him was a ‘drunk’ and part of
him was ‘sober’. The problem with

199

these configurations is that the ‘drunk’
can generally undermine the whole
process and take over the definition of
the person. One wonders how many
other people might be described as
partial drunks, if only we could be
present at the meetings of their parts?

200

Earning the Right to work with
Rick: A Traumatised Client

Chapter 6 in Mearns & Cooper
(2005) Working at Relational
Depth in Counselling and
Psychotherapy.

201

Trauma is a
profoundly
existential event

202

‘Trauma fundamentally
disrupts the whole assumptive
frame upon which our sense of
self is founded’ (Mearns & Cooper,
p. 65)

203

RICK

‘ Fire fight’
‘ Fragging’
Third tour
Mute

204

The first of 72 meetings over
12 weeks

RICK’S ROOM

RICK’S SILENCE

MY ‘WHO I AM’ SPEECH
205

MEETING 2

RESPECTING AND
CONNECTING

206

ENCOUNTER NOT INVASION

207

RICK’S TURNING ROUND

208

MAINTAINING OUR HUMANITY
WHEN WE GET LITTLE BACK

What I did get back from Rick
Staying fresh
The ‘rap group’
Supervision.
209

TALKING THE TALK

210

MEETING 15

THE ‘FLYING BOOK’

211

MEETING 23

THE DAY RICK CRIED

212

MEETING 25

“ TELL HIM NOT TO COME”

213

MEETING 26

THE DAY DAVE CRIED

214

MEETING 27

DO YOU TAKE CREAM OR
SUGAR?

215

THE END OF THE
BEGINNING?
OR

THE BEGINNING OF THE
END?
216

Pct a relational approach (2010)

More Related Content

Viewers also liked (19)

Similar to Pct a relational approach (2010) (20)

Recently uploaded (20)

Pct a relational approach (2010)