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Social Media 101 for Associations with notes
Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebruce0/2266376897/




                                                             2
Evolving

Social, relationships. Usage growing. Crave social interaction, community.

Traditional methods of communication - broadcasting, 1 party to many
New web-based tools – don’t cost money, easy to use - public conversations, 1 to 1

No longer only consumers of content, we’re all content publishers. Assns – content
curators also.

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewanderson/3685276834/




                                                                                     3
Why should you care?
Not because everyone else is doing it – wrong reason.
Right reason - social media = tool for achieving strategic plan goals.

But lots of assns (and biz) didn’t start with goals, instead created a Fb page or Twitter
account.
Don’t do it backwards. Begin with goals and objectives, tie your strategies and actions to
that. Will help you sell it too.




                                                                                             4
Tool to provide resources that your members will value.
Send out news updates, links to info/resources on blogs, your site, other sites; host
discussions about issues.

Example - ASAE – blog, twitter, LinkedIn group (got advice there when I was starting up
social media at CBIA)

Added benefit – viral media, people will share.
Online thought leader.




                                                                                          5
Benefit – platform for peer to peer networking.

Face2face always critical, yet relationships can start online, nurtured online - provide the
platform for that. (my experience) We’re creating a community.
ASAE made it easy - their blog, online efforts for annual meeting.

Provide a way for your members to create community by hosting a platform, tie your
members to you and help them make bonds with each other.




                                                                                               6
Benefit - word of mouth marketing that social media provides for your association and
your programs.

Social media is viral – people share on Fb, Twitter, LI.

You’re accessible to public, non-members. More than a logo, part of the
industry/profession’s online community. It allows you to show how you provide value to
your members.

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leomei/2651896908/




                                                                                         7
Businesses use social media to respond to customer questions/complaints. Works for
associations too.
Example – airlines (budget vs legacy)

Easy to set up listening tools - can be alerted when people are talking about you (will
cover).
Be more accessible – out there in members’ lives, no longer an institution - have a
presence.
Useful at conferences.

Be social media coach – teach how to use social media to better market their business,
further their professional development.

Image – http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/files/2009/04/ernestine.jpg




                                                                                          8
For trade associations – use social media for political action alerts.
Viral - alerts will spread. Lead back to web site.

Image –
http://media.photobucket.com/image/%252522bat%20signal%252522/air223/iamtheni
ght-Batman-Bat-Signal-CEL.jpg




                                                                                9
Covered ways to tie social media to strategic plan.
Now review current use of tools.

Traditional channels still critical, esp F2F. Web site will be home base.

Image – http://www.flickr.com/photos/dianecmac/4002283918/




                                                                            10
Some areas to review:

1. Regularly assess members current needs? Giving them what they need?
2. Have updated strategic plan, scan environment, project different futures? Anticipated
future needs? How needs of their customers will change, affecting how members do
business?
3. Site analytics? Popular pages? Where visitors come from? Search terms?
4. Easy for members to share? ShareThis buttons?
5. Email/mail to everyone? Segmented by target?
6. Email too frequently? Coordinate with other departments?
7. Track clicks?
8. Getting member preferences on how to receive information? RSS feed? (will show)




                                                                                           11
Data helpful for social media sales pitch. Data - online searches. Constantly changing.

Additional data:

Facebook:
If Facebook as country, 4th most populated place on planet. More than Brazil, Russia and Japan.
The fastest growing group - those who are 35 years old and older. (source: Facebook)
More than 300 million active users, 50% of whom log in on any given day.
35 years and older – fastest growing group
2 billion + pieces of content shared each week.

Twitter: 20 million unique visitors to the site each month.
18 million new users per year.
There are on average 4 million tweets a day

Flickr hosts more than 3.6 billion images, that’s 1 photo for every 2 people on the planet.

The number of video views a day on YouTube has surpassed one billion.
YouTube - #2 largest search engine in the world is YouTube

LinkedIn - gateway drug of social media.
80% of companies use (or are planning to use) LinkedIn as their primary tool to find employees
this year.




                                                                                                  12
The future is mobile, demographics.
In 2009 Boston College stopped distributing e-mail addresses to incoming freshmen.




                                                                                     13
Fish where your fish are.

Image - http://www.clevescene.com/images/blogimages/2009/10/01/1254423909-
doonesbury.jpg
Image - http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/richedit/upload/2k5cfbfdada1.jpg




                                                                             14
Forrester Research - Ladder - breakdown of the different types of users. Good to know
who your member creators and critics are.

For those under 35, participation in social media is nearly universal - less than 10% are
Inactive.
And even among those 55 and over, 2/3’s of them are participating.

By 2010 Generation Y will outnumber Baby Boomers, and 96% of GenY have joined a
social network.
Future membership, digital natives, need to be part of their world.

Our competition will not be another association, our competition is already what’s
available online.
If I can find professional and business development resources online, as well as news
and information, and if I can connect with folks to plan f2f meetups, what’s the point of
joining an association?




                                                                                            15
Cultural issues.
Positive - If you have cross-departmental team working on social media, silos will
hopefully start to spring leaks
Not bc of cross-dept (you might do that already), but because social media requires a
collaborative environment, sharing, not holding info.

Social media - culture shift for many associations used to traditional way.
Younger generations - different views, changes inevitable. Social media as catalyst.

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfrenzelphotos/3011092206/




                                                                                        16
You think you’re in control of your brand or your message, you’re not.

Your brand is what other people think it is.
Conversations going on, but going on without you.




                                                                         17
Expectation of transparency for both organizations and people. A demand that we be up
front/genuine/trustworthy.

Also, the walls between personal and public falling down. HR depts googling candidates.
We’re representing our companies 24/7.
                Example – google someone – see personal and professional. Friending
members.

Organizations – nonprofits accountable to the public, worthy of trust, 990.

Social media demands transparency, being genuine, honesty in all things.
                Caveat - habit of withholding information from membership at large or
the public, or putting a spin on things that isn’t quite honest.
                Outcome – viral negativity

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/antaldaniel/2912118873/




                                                                                          18
It’s social media. People prefer having relationships with people, not brands, logos or
institutions.

Be a real person, have conversations. Mix in a little personal now, makes you real, create
bonds, but be smart about it.

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/mediaflex/3900099732/




                                                                                             19
Try 80% value/content, 20% promotion. Low tolerance for sales broadcasting on web.

Cultural stuff about control, authenticity, transparency and collaboration is important.
Needs to become part of your personal mindset and your organization’s strategy if you
want to be successful.

Image - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wFWqWIH-WFU/R-S9V-
xyWlI/AAAAAAAAEL8/GbrA5BpNIEQ/s200/car-salesman.jpg




                                                                                           20
It’s not free. Tools are free, but staff time to listen, respond, encourage conversation and
create content.

Can’t slap up a group or page and walk away, need to nurture and engage, and also
market your community.

Very satisfying work - creating a community, providing resources, helping folks make
connections. Critical work to association mission.

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/thijs/531589395/




                                                                                               21
Use it personally first so you can get a feel for it.

Use it for your own professional development - association management
                 Read blogs (see resources)
                 Learn about potential of each tool, how it could fit in with assn’s goals
                 Get a sense of the culture – etiquette, do’s and don’ts
                 Complete your profiles




                                                                                             22
Find your community. Need to know where they are, and meet them there.

Member survey –
               what socmed tools do you use regularly – personally and/or
professionally
               which blogs do you read professionally,
               which LinkedIn groups do you belong to
               Facebook groups/pages
               find out the extent of their involvement (see Forrester ladder)

Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/laszlo-photo/2062181707/




                                                                                 23
We’ll cover this in more detail in future webinars.
Can upload file with member email addresses, find out which members are using tool.




                                                                                      24
You’re familiar with how tools work.
Know where your members are.
Reviewed strategic plan, have idea of ways tools can help you achieve goals.

Start small. Choose one tool.

Or clean up your web site, or relook at your email/newsletter strategy.
Or, ShareThis button to your web site or RSS feeds from site.




                                                                               25
What kind of impact are you looking for? What will success look like?
Will also help you sell social media to your boss – validate time spent.

Measure using something similar to Forrester ladder – 5 C’s of Engagement (Creating,
Critiquing, Chatting, Collecting, Clicking) – SocialFish
Or metrics that make sense to you.

Example – LI group




                                                                                       26
How to convince the boss?
Tie social media to strategic plan, you’ll find new ways to tie members to you, provide
value to them. Value-added community. Golden handcuff.

1. Find allies, powerful.
2. Rehearse your demo/sales pitch.
3. Focus on how one tool can help meet strategic plan goals – review benefits to assn
   and members, be prepared to overcome obstacles. Don’t use lingo.
4. Walk them through experience of how you use socmed, make it real. Knowledge,
   expands network, saves time.
5. Dispel myths (lunch, party photos). Not a passing fad - email once a new toy. Use
   demographic data. Address anticipated fears – legal – moderation, terms of
   agreement.
6. By doing some homework, show that your community is out there without you.
7. Show how other assns or execs use it. Emotional selling. (LI – Bob)
8. Don’t promise too much. Promise baby steps. Which tool to start with? Goals? How
   do they match plan? How will you do that? How will you measure success? Address
   time issue.




                                                                                          27
Staff – Reps from all key departments/functions.
         Leader – not IT – someone who understands assn mission/objectives, sees big
         picture, not territorial, in tune with members
        Find out who’s using socmed already.
        Meet at least monthly. Short meetings, focus on content ideas for upcoming
        month – what will provide value. What needs to be promoted. Value vs selling
        ratio.

Can consult informally with members who are using socmed - advise on content ideas,
seed discussions.

Image -
http://media.dailybruin.com/dailybruin/img/2009/may/04/web.sp.5.4.rowing.picA.jpg




                                                                                       28
Eventually want a set of guidelines. Socialfish’s one page version. Put it in the employee
manual.
HR or legal consultant.
These guidelines will tell staff what they can’t do (examples) but more importantly how
they should behave.
               Honest, consider audience, respect copyrights etc, confidentiality,
manage time, add value




                                                                                             29
Anticipate some failures.
New media, everyone still learning.
Learn from mistakes, get back up and move on

Image - http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0810/oly_g_bobek_576.jpg




                                                                   30
One way – Google Alerts and Twitter advanced search.
Decide on keywords. Good exercise for your team – brainstorm.
        Assn name/variations/misspellings/acronym, affiliate names,
        event/product/service names, CSE/leaders name, URL for web site/other sites,
        competitors’ names, industry terms/phrases.
        Check Google Analytics for search terms
Start small, grow as you get more competent. Review/refine.

Other listening tools besides Google and Twitter
         Backtype searches blog comments
         BoardTracker searches listservs and forums
        Facebook and LinkedIn




                                                                                       31
My Google Reader.
RSS icon - create a feed for the results of that search. You’re subscribing to search
results, like subscribing to blog or web site feed.
Select icon, direct it to your Reader. Search results appear as Google or Twitter finds
them, in your reader, automatically.

Commoncraft video on Google Reader.

When you know where your fans/members are and where conversation is happening,
start listening and then participating in conversations through blog commenting.
Subscribe to blogs –Alltop. Make sure folks know how to get back to your home base.

Social media page on web site - online outposts. Market it. Build community

Market research –hot topics and concerns, prospects, volunteers.
Be a first responder – put out fires, correct misperceptions

Always think value - be a resource for news/information, answer questions, connect
people. Be a community that provides value and connections to its members – that’s the
goal.
No online community will be a threat.




                                                                                          32
Quick peeks at the tools we’ll cover in later webinars.
Facebook – Nov 3, Ted

Facebook decision – public page with fans, or group with members – pros and cons
This page – fan – updates automatically
News and links to resources, event and other announcements, photos, blog feed, videos




                                                                                        33
Twitter – Nov 12, Ted

Great for conferences and providing resources.
My use – prof dev, prof/personal networking
Don’t protect updates, fill in profile, 20/80 mix




                                                    34
LinkedIn – Dec 2, me

A good first step into social media.
Decision – members only or public
Challenge – CBIA, no one nurturing




                                       35
36
37
Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/demibrooke/2550349404/




                                                              38

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Social Media 101 for Associations with notes

  • 3. Evolving Social, relationships. Usage growing. Crave social interaction, community. Traditional methods of communication - broadcasting, 1 party to many New web-based tools – don’t cost money, easy to use - public conversations, 1 to 1 No longer only consumers of content, we’re all content publishers. Assns – content curators also. Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewanderson/3685276834/ 3
  • 4. Why should you care? Not because everyone else is doing it – wrong reason. Right reason - social media = tool for achieving strategic plan goals. But lots of assns (and biz) didn’t start with goals, instead created a Fb page or Twitter account. Don’t do it backwards. Begin with goals and objectives, tie your strategies and actions to that. Will help you sell it too. 4
  • 5. Tool to provide resources that your members will value. Send out news updates, links to info/resources on blogs, your site, other sites; host discussions about issues. Example - ASAE – blog, twitter, LinkedIn group (got advice there when I was starting up social media at CBIA) Added benefit – viral media, people will share. Online thought leader. 5
  • 6. Benefit – platform for peer to peer networking. Face2face always critical, yet relationships can start online, nurtured online - provide the platform for that. (my experience) We’re creating a community. ASAE made it easy - their blog, online efforts for annual meeting. Provide a way for your members to create community by hosting a platform, tie your members to you and help them make bonds with each other. 6
  • 7. Benefit - word of mouth marketing that social media provides for your association and your programs. Social media is viral – people share on Fb, Twitter, LI. You’re accessible to public, non-members. More than a logo, part of the industry/profession’s online community. It allows you to show how you provide value to your members. Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/leomei/2651896908/ 7
  • 8. Businesses use social media to respond to customer questions/complaints. Works for associations too. Example – airlines (budget vs legacy) Easy to set up listening tools - can be alerted when people are talking about you (will cover). Be more accessible – out there in members’ lives, no longer an institution - have a presence. Useful at conferences. Be social media coach – teach how to use social media to better market their business, further their professional development. Image – http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/files/2009/04/ernestine.jpg 8
  • 9. For trade associations – use social media for political action alerts. Viral - alerts will spread. Lead back to web site. Image – http://media.photobucket.com/image/%252522bat%20signal%252522/air223/iamtheni ght-Batman-Bat-Signal-CEL.jpg 9
  • 10. Covered ways to tie social media to strategic plan. Now review current use of tools. Traditional channels still critical, esp F2F. Web site will be home base. Image – http://www.flickr.com/photos/dianecmac/4002283918/ 10
  • 11. Some areas to review: 1. Regularly assess members current needs? Giving them what they need? 2. Have updated strategic plan, scan environment, project different futures? Anticipated future needs? How needs of their customers will change, affecting how members do business? 3. Site analytics? Popular pages? Where visitors come from? Search terms? 4. Easy for members to share? ShareThis buttons? 5. Email/mail to everyone? Segmented by target? 6. Email too frequently? Coordinate with other departments? 7. Track clicks? 8. Getting member preferences on how to receive information? RSS feed? (will show) 11
  • 12. Data helpful for social media sales pitch. Data - online searches. Constantly changing. Additional data: Facebook: If Facebook as country, 4th most populated place on planet. More than Brazil, Russia and Japan. The fastest growing group - those who are 35 years old and older. (source: Facebook) More than 300 million active users, 50% of whom log in on any given day. 35 years and older – fastest growing group 2 billion + pieces of content shared each week. Twitter: 20 million unique visitors to the site each month. 18 million new users per year. There are on average 4 million tweets a day Flickr hosts more than 3.6 billion images, that’s 1 photo for every 2 people on the planet. The number of video views a day on YouTube has surpassed one billion. YouTube - #2 largest search engine in the world is YouTube LinkedIn - gateway drug of social media. 80% of companies use (or are planning to use) LinkedIn as their primary tool to find employees this year. 12
  • 13. The future is mobile, demographics. In 2009 Boston College stopped distributing e-mail addresses to incoming freshmen. 13
  • 14. Fish where your fish are. Image - http://www.clevescene.com/images/blogimages/2009/10/01/1254423909- doonesbury.jpg Image - http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/richedit/upload/2k5cfbfdada1.jpg 14
  • 15. Forrester Research - Ladder - breakdown of the different types of users. Good to know who your member creators and critics are. For those under 35, participation in social media is nearly universal - less than 10% are Inactive. And even among those 55 and over, 2/3’s of them are participating. By 2010 Generation Y will outnumber Baby Boomers, and 96% of GenY have joined a social network. Future membership, digital natives, need to be part of their world. Our competition will not be another association, our competition is already what’s available online. If I can find professional and business development resources online, as well as news and information, and if I can connect with folks to plan f2f meetups, what’s the point of joining an association? 15
  • 16. Cultural issues. Positive - If you have cross-departmental team working on social media, silos will hopefully start to spring leaks Not bc of cross-dept (you might do that already), but because social media requires a collaborative environment, sharing, not holding info. Social media - culture shift for many associations used to traditional way. Younger generations - different views, changes inevitable. Social media as catalyst. Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfrenzelphotos/3011092206/ 16
  • 17. You think you’re in control of your brand or your message, you’re not. Your brand is what other people think it is. Conversations going on, but going on without you. 17
  • 18. Expectation of transparency for both organizations and people. A demand that we be up front/genuine/trustworthy. Also, the walls between personal and public falling down. HR depts googling candidates. We’re representing our companies 24/7. Example – google someone – see personal and professional. Friending members. Organizations – nonprofits accountable to the public, worthy of trust, 990. Social media demands transparency, being genuine, honesty in all things. Caveat - habit of withholding information from membership at large or the public, or putting a spin on things that isn’t quite honest. Outcome – viral negativity Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/antaldaniel/2912118873/ 18
  • 19. It’s social media. People prefer having relationships with people, not brands, logos or institutions. Be a real person, have conversations. Mix in a little personal now, makes you real, create bonds, but be smart about it. Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/mediaflex/3900099732/ 19
  • 20. Try 80% value/content, 20% promotion. Low tolerance for sales broadcasting on web. Cultural stuff about control, authenticity, transparency and collaboration is important. Needs to become part of your personal mindset and your organization’s strategy if you want to be successful. Image - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wFWqWIH-WFU/R-S9V- xyWlI/AAAAAAAAEL8/GbrA5BpNIEQ/s200/car-salesman.jpg 20
  • 21. It’s not free. Tools are free, but staff time to listen, respond, encourage conversation and create content. Can’t slap up a group or page and walk away, need to nurture and engage, and also market your community. Very satisfying work - creating a community, providing resources, helping folks make connections. Critical work to association mission. Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/thijs/531589395/ 21
  • 22. Use it personally first so you can get a feel for it. Use it for your own professional development - association management Read blogs (see resources) Learn about potential of each tool, how it could fit in with assn’s goals Get a sense of the culture – etiquette, do’s and don’ts Complete your profiles 22
  • 23. Find your community. Need to know where they are, and meet them there. Member survey – what socmed tools do you use regularly – personally and/or professionally which blogs do you read professionally, which LinkedIn groups do you belong to Facebook groups/pages find out the extent of their involvement (see Forrester ladder) Image - http://www.flickr.com/photos/laszlo-photo/2062181707/ 23
  • 24. We’ll cover this in more detail in future webinars. Can upload file with member email addresses, find out which members are using tool. 24
  • 25. You’re familiar with how tools work. Know where your members are. Reviewed strategic plan, have idea of ways tools can help you achieve goals. Start small. Choose one tool. Or clean up your web site, or relook at your email/newsletter strategy. Or, ShareThis button to your web site or RSS feeds from site. 25
  • 26. What kind of impact are you looking for? What will success look like? Will also help you sell social media to your boss – validate time spent. Measure using something similar to Forrester ladder – 5 C’s of Engagement (Creating, Critiquing, Chatting, Collecting, Clicking) – SocialFish Or metrics that make sense to you. Example – LI group 26
  • 27. How to convince the boss? Tie social media to strategic plan, you’ll find new ways to tie members to you, provide value to them. Value-added community. Golden handcuff. 1. Find allies, powerful. 2. Rehearse your demo/sales pitch. 3. Focus on how one tool can help meet strategic plan goals – review benefits to assn and members, be prepared to overcome obstacles. Don’t use lingo. 4. Walk them through experience of how you use socmed, make it real. Knowledge, expands network, saves time. 5. Dispel myths (lunch, party photos). Not a passing fad - email once a new toy. Use demographic data. Address anticipated fears – legal – moderation, terms of agreement. 6. By doing some homework, show that your community is out there without you. 7. Show how other assns or execs use it. Emotional selling. (LI – Bob) 8. Don’t promise too much. Promise baby steps. Which tool to start with? Goals? How do they match plan? How will you do that? How will you measure success? Address time issue. 27
  • 28. Staff – Reps from all key departments/functions. Leader – not IT – someone who understands assn mission/objectives, sees big picture, not territorial, in tune with members Find out who’s using socmed already. Meet at least monthly. Short meetings, focus on content ideas for upcoming month – what will provide value. What needs to be promoted. Value vs selling ratio. Can consult informally with members who are using socmed - advise on content ideas, seed discussions. Image - http://media.dailybruin.com/dailybruin/img/2009/may/04/web.sp.5.4.rowing.picA.jpg 28
  • 29. Eventually want a set of guidelines. Socialfish’s one page version. Put it in the employee manual. HR or legal consultant. These guidelines will tell staff what they can’t do (examples) but more importantly how they should behave. Honest, consider audience, respect copyrights etc, confidentiality, manage time, add value 29
  • 30. Anticipate some failures. New media, everyone still learning. Learn from mistakes, get back up and move on Image - http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0810/oly_g_bobek_576.jpg 30
  • 31. One way – Google Alerts and Twitter advanced search. Decide on keywords. Good exercise for your team – brainstorm. Assn name/variations/misspellings/acronym, affiliate names, event/product/service names, CSE/leaders name, URL for web site/other sites, competitors’ names, industry terms/phrases. Check Google Analytics for search terms Start small, grow as you get more competent. Review/refine. Other listening tools besides Google and Twitter Backtype searches blog comments BoardTracker searches listservs and forums Facebook and LinkedIn 31
  • 32. My Google Reader. RSS icon - create a feed for the results of that search. You’re subscribing to search results, like subscribing to blog or web site feed. Select icon, direct it to your Reader. Search results appear as Google or Twitter finds them, in your reader, automatically. Commoncraft video on Google Reader. When you know where your fans/members are and where conversation is happening, start listening and then participating in conversations through blog commenting. Subscribe to blogs –Alltop. Make sure folks know how to get back to your home base. Social media page on web site - online outposts. Market it. Build community Market research –hot topics and concerns, prospects, volunteers. Be a first responder – put out fires, correct misperceptions Always think value - be a resource for news/information, answer questions, connect people. Be a community that provides value and connections to its members – that’s the goal. No online community will be a threat. 32
  • 33. Quick peeks at the tools we’ll cover in later webinars. Facebook – Nov 3, Ted Facebook decision – public page with fans, or group with members – pros and cons This page – fan – updates automatically News and links to resources, event and other announcements, photos, blog feed, videos 33
  • 34. Twitter – Nov 12, Ted Great for conferences and providing resources. My use – prof dev, prof/personal networking Don’t protect updates, fill in profile, 20/80 mix 34
  • 35. LinkedIn – Dec 2, me A good first step into social media. Decision – members only or public Challenge – CBIA, no one nurturing 35
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