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Generative Governance, 
Relationships and Conversations 
Mark Holmgren 
www.markholmgren.com 
1
GOVERNANCE 
is about MAKING DECISIONS 
TO ACT OR THAT FRAME or LIMIT 
ACTION, based on explicit commitments 
to the organization’s mission and vision, 
the people served and the people serving. 
STRATEGY PRIORITIES RESOURCES RISK RULES 
2
Governance Challenges 
Complexity 
CHALLENGES ARE: 
SIMPLE like a recipe. 
COMPLICATED like a rocket 
COMPLEX like raising a child 
YOU 
ARE 
HERE 
YOU 
ARE 
HERE 
YOU 
ARE 
HERE 
YOU 
ARE 
HERE 
YOU 
ARE 
HERE 
3
Governance Challenges 
Unpredictable 
Order 
Affectionately known as “Chaos.” 
4 
Chaos, from a static view, is 
“pieces waiting to come 
together,” an embryonic pattern 
about to happen. 
Chaos, from a dynamic view, is a 
process. It has a consistency to 
it. 
From a scientific standpoint 
chaos has a pattern, a kind of 
rhythm, ebbs and flows. 
Source: University of Kentucky
Governance Challenges 
Rapid Pace of Change 
5
Governance Challenges 
Unlimited 
Information 
can negatively 
impact decision-making 
6
Governance Challenges 
DOGMA EXAMPLES 
Best Practice 
Outcomes 
This is how “we” do it 
Bias-based thinking 
Majority Rules 
Cultural Norms 
Limited Inquiry 
a principle or set of 
principles laid down by an 
authority as incontrovertibly 
true. 
7
Governance Continuum: A New Mindset? 
Standalone Cooperate Collaborate Integrate 
Organizational 
Fixation 
Our Mission 
Sovereignty 
Us versus Them 
Our Resources 
Organizational 
Focus 
Our Mission 
Helped 
Sovereignty 
Us and Them 
Our Resources 
Leveraged 
Organizational 
Outreach 
Our Mission 
plus Your 
Mission 
Co-Sovereignty 
Us with Them 
More Resources 
for Each of Us 
Organizational 
Weaving 
Common 
Mission 
Loss of total 
Sovereignty 
We 
More Resources 
for the Cause 
8 
Should the goal be 
to be a 
NETWORKED 
ORGANIZATION 
Or is it to see THE 
NETWORK 
AS THE 
ORGANIZATION?
Types of Governance 
Fiduciary Strategic Generative 
Key Question What’s wrong? What’s the plan? What’s the question? 
Board Focus Define Problems 
Review Performance 
Solve Problems 
Shape Strategy 
Frame Problems 
Sense-Making 
Central Purpose of Board Steward of Assets Partner with Management Source of Leadership 
Board’s Role Oversight, Authority Strategist Fresh Perspective 
Board Process Parliamentary Logical, Empirical Informal, Creative 
Problems are… Spotted Solved Framed 
Decision-making Resolution Consensus Framing Question 
Metrics Facts and Figures Indicators, competitive 
analysis 
Signs of learning and 
discerning 
SOURCE: 
Chait, Ryan, 
and Taylor 9 
Communication Limited, controlling Bi-lateral, episodic, advocacy Multi-lateral, ongoing to learn
Definitions 
Generative: “of or relating to reproduction.” 
Conversation: “the informal exchange of ideas 
by spoken words.” 
Generative Relationship: “produces new 
sources of value which cannot be foreseen in 
advance” 
(Lane and Maxfield, 1996). 
10 
Generative conversation is 
practised when we are 
attempting to create new 
knowledge; it is creative, 
divergent, and builds new 
relations between previously 
separate bodies of knowledge.
TYPES OF GENERATIVE CONVERATIONS 
ACTION 
SHIFTING 
SPECULATION REFLECTION 
Discovering 
Cause and Effect 
– Evaluating and 
Learning 
Organizing 
Differently to 
Create Focus 
and Synergy 
Identifying What 
Could Be – 
Building Options, 
Exploring Ideas 
Generating 
Compelling 
Action 
GENERATIVE 
CONVERSATIONS 
11 
Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd.
Speculative Conversation 
Moving beyond issues to 
strategic dialogue that wonders 
about… what could be or what 
wants to be. 
New visions may emerge out of 
the learning realized in the 
Reflective Conversation. 
Speculation advances curiosity 
to explore possibility. 
KEY ELEMENTS 
What if questions abound. 
Creativity and imagination are 
undertaken collaboratively. 
Our speculation can challenge 
sacred cows, historical 
assumptions. 
New insights are explored. 
Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 
12
Shifting Conversation 
New pathways open up as a result of new 
possibilities being seen. 
The shifting conversation works to 
overcome resistance and blind spots 
which prevented new possibilities in the 
first place. 
New commitments are pursued as a result 
of these conversations. 
KEY ELEMENTS 
The conversation is broadened to 
include more in the understanding 
and the development of the new or 
changed way of working. 
The conversation leads to aligned 
commitment to act. 
There is recognition that not 
everyone can come along in the 
same way at the same time. 
Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 
13
Action Conversations 
• Organizes and inspires people to move. 
• Produces observable results. 
• Generates requests and offers. 
• Allocates resources and priorities. 
Action Conversations involve negotiation 
toward accountabilities and clear 
conditions of success. 
KEY ELEMENTS 
14 
Conversations take place 
across strategic, 
objective and tactical 
domains. 
Proposals are made. 
Commitments reached. 
Metrics set. 
Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd.
Reflective Conversations 
Explores the state of what is and the 
outcomes of our actions. 
• Did we do what we said? 
• Was the quality sufficient? 
• What did this cost? 
• What is the real purpose of that 
program, action, etc.? 
It is “open” curiosity driven to 
understand, not judge. 
KEY ELEMENTS 
Pulling things a part to look at them. 
Honest assessment of intent versus 
outcomes. 
Values and beliefs are explored. 
Course, direction, and destinations are 
questioned. 
The obvious is brought into light. 
The unobvious is uncovered. 
Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 
15
Barriers of Generative Conversations 16 
The Battle of the Certain. Inequity of Participation
Barriers to Generative Conversations 
Limiting Possibilities 
Hidden Agendas 
17
Barriers to Generative Conversations 
Lack of Disciplined Facilitation 
Unprepared Participants 
18
Necessary Foundation 
We are here to learn. 
We are here to help one 
another learn. 
We know that learning is 
about change. 
19
Necessary Foundation 
We need to be intentional 
about understanding one 
another. 
I need to speak my truth 
without having to prove 
another truth wrong. 
20
Necessary Foundation 
Contrast Bias 
Each of us is biased. We need to 
Status Quo Bias 
Contrast Bias 
help work with that and break 
Commitment Bias 
through what stops us from being 
Confirmation Bias 
open. 
Bias Blind Spot 
Commitment Bias 
Silence is okay. Don’t fight it. 
Negativity Bias 
Normalcy Bias 
Each of us is biased. 
We need to help 
work with that and 
break through what 
stops us from being 
open. 
Confirmation Bias 
Status Quo Bias 
Attentional Bias 
Bias Blind Spot 
Negativity Bias 
Normalcy Bias 
21
How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? 
Avoid ‘YOU” 
Avoid “You 
Think You 
Got It Bad” 
22
How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? 
Avoid Moralizing and 
Being Preachy 
Avoid 
“Yeh But” 
23
How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? 
Avoid Show Stopping 
Judgment-Words 
24
Parting Words 
“We move in the direction of what we are 
curious about. The more positive and life-giving 
the question, the more positive and 
long lasting the change” (Claire Fialkov & David Haddad). 
25
ABOUT MARK HOLMGREN 
Mark’s consulting practice has delivered social housing, strategic plans, 
new programs and services, innovations, evaluations, and research and 
analysis for a wide variety of organizations and departments including 
governments, human service agencies, funders, arts and culture 
groups, health organizations, educational institutions, and faith 
communities. 
In early 2014, Mark was recognized by Tamarack Institute as one its 
national thought leaders and appointed to the Mayor of Edmonton’s 
Task Force on Eliminating Poverty. 
Currently he is the CEO of Bissell Centre, a position he has held since 
the spring of 2011. 
www.markholmgren.com | @mjholmgren 
26

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Generative Governance and Conversations

  • 1. Generative Governance, Relationships and Conversations Mark Holmgren www.markholmgren.com 1
  • 2. GOVERNANCE is about MAKING DECISIONS TO ACT OR THAT FRAME or LIMIT ACTION, based on explicit commitments to the organization’s mission and vision, the people served and the people serving. STRATEGY PRIORITIES RESOURCES RISK RULES 2
  • 3. Governance Challenges Complexity CHALLENGES ARE: SIMPLE like a recipe. COMPLICATED like a rocket COMPLEX like raising a child YOU ARE HERE YOU ARE HERE YOU ARE HERE YOU ARE HERE YOU ARE HERE 3
  • 4. Governance Challenges Unpredictable Order Affectionately known as “Chaos.” 4 Chaos, from a static view, is “pieces waiting to come together,” an embryonic pattern about to happen. Chaos, from a dynamic view, is a process. It has a consistency to it. From a scientific standpoint chaos has a pattern, a kind of rhythm, ebbs and flows. Source: University of Kentucky
  • 5. Governance Challenges Rapid Pace of Change 5
  • 6. Governance Challenges Unlimited Information can negatively impact decision-making 6
  • 7. Governance Challenges DOGMA EXAMPLES Best Practice Outcomes This is how “we” do it Bias-based thinking Majority Rules Cultural Norms Limited Inquiry a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. 7
  • 8. Governance Continuum: A New Mindset? Standalone Cooperate Collaborate Integrate Organizational Fixation Our Mission Sovereignty Us versus Them Our Resources Organizational Focus Our Mission Helped Sovereignty Us and Them Our Resources Leveraged Organizational Outreach Our Mission plus Your Mission Co-Sovereignty Us with Them More Resources for Each of Us Organizational Weaving Common Mission Loss of total Sovereignty We More Resources for the Cause 8 Should the goal be to be a NETWORKED ORGANIZATION Or is it to see THE NETWORK AS THE ORGANIZATION?
  • 9. Types of Governance Fiduciary Strategic Generative Key Question What’s wrong? What’s the plan? What’s the question? Board Focus Define Problems Review Performance Solve Problems Shape Strategy Frame Problems Sense-Making Central Purpose of Board Steward of Assets Partner with Management Source of Leadership Board’s Role Oversight, Authority Strategist Fresh Perspective Board Process Parliamentary Logical, Empirical Informal, Creative Problems are… Spotted Solved Framed Decision-making Resolution Consensus Framing Question Metrics Facts and Figures Indicators, competitive analysis Signs of learning and discerning SOURCE: Chait, Ryan, and Taylor 9 Communication Limited, controlling Bi-lateral, episodic, advocacy Multi-lateral, ongoing to learn
  • 10. Definitions Generative: “of or relating to reproduction.” Conversation: “the informal exchange of ideas by spoken words.” Generative Relationship: “produces new sources of value which cannot be foreseen in advance” (Lane and Maxfield, 1996). 10 Generative conversation is practised when we are attempting to create new knowledge; it is creative, divergent, and builds new relations between previously separate bodies of knowledge.
  • 11. TYPES OF GENERATIVE CONVERATIONS ACTION SHIFTING SPECULATION REFLECTION Discovering Cause and Effect – Evaluating and Learning Organizing Differently to Create Focus and Synergy Identifying What Could Be – Building Options, Exploring Ideas Generating Compelling Action GENERATIVE CONVERSATIONS 11 Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd.
  • 12. Speculative Conversation Moving beyond issues to strategic dialogue that wonders about… what could be or what wants to be. New visions may emerge out of the learning realized in the Reflective Conversation. Speculation advances curiosity to explore possibility. KEY ELEMENTS What if questions abound. Creativity and imagination are undertaken collaboratively. Our speculation can challenge sacred cows, historical assumptions. New insights are explored. Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 12
  • 13. Shifting Conversation New pathways open up as a result of new possibilities being seen. The shifting conversation works to overcome resistance and blind spots which prevented new possibilities in the first place. New commitments are pursued as a result of these conversations. KEY ELEMENTS The conversation is broadened to include more in the understanding and the development of the new or changed way of working. The conversation leads to aligned commitment to act. There is recognition that not everyone can come along in the same way at the same time. Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 13
  • 14. Action Conversations • Organizes and inspires people to move. • Produces observable results. • Generates requests and offers. • Allocates resources and priorities. Action Conversations involve negotiation toward accountabilities and clear conditions of success. KEY ELEMENTS 14 Conversations take place across strategic, objective and tactical domains. Proposals are made. Commitments reached. Metrics set. Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd.
  • 15. Reflective Conversations Explores the state of what is and the outcomes of our actions. • Did we do what we said? • Was the quality sufficient? • What did this cost? • What is the real purpose of that program, action, etc.? It is “open” curiosity driven to understand, not judge. KEY ELEMENTS Pulling things a part to look at them. Honest assessment of intent versus outcomes. Values and beliefs are explored. Course, direction, and destinations are questioned. The obvious is brought into light. The unobvious is uncovered. Based on and adapted from DDJ Myers, Ltd. 15
  • 16. Barriers of Generative Conversations 16 The Battle of the Certain. Inequity of Participation
  • 17. Barriers to Generative Conversations Limiting Possibilities Hidden Agendas 17
  • 18. Barriers to Generative Conversations Lack of Disciplined Facilitation Unprepared Participants 18
  • 19. Necessary Foundation We are here to learn. We are here to help one another learn. We know that learning is about change. 19
  • 20. Necessary Foundation We need to be intentional about understanding one another. I need to speak my truth without having to prove another truth wrong. 20
  • 21. Necessary Foundation Contrast Bias Each of us is biased. We need to Status Quo Bias Contrast Bias help work with that and break Commitment Bias through what stops us from being Confirmation Bias open. Bias Blind Spot Commitment Bias Silence is okay. Don’t fight it. Negativity Bias Normalcy Bias Each of us is biased. We need to help work with that and break through what stops us from being open. Confirmation Bias Status Quo Bias Attentional Bias Bias Blind Spot Negativity Bias Normalcy Bias 21
  • 22. How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? Avoid ‘YOU” Avoid “You Think You Got It Bad” 22
  • 23. How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? Avoid Moralizing and Being Preachy Avoid “Yeh But” 23
  • 24. How can “I” Foster Generative Conversations? Avoid Show Stopping Judgment-Words 24
  • 25. Parting Words “We move in the direction of what we are curious about. The more positive and life-giving the question, the more positive and long lasting the change” (Claire Fialkov & David Haddad). 25
  • 26. ABOUT MARK HOLMGREN Mark’s consulting practice has delivered social housing, strategic plans, new programs and services, innovations, evaluations, and research and analysis for a wide variety of organizations and departments including governments, human service agencies, funders, arts and culture groups, health organizations, educational institutions, and faith communities. In early 2014, Mark was recognized by Tamarack Institute as one its national thought leaders and appointed to the Mayor of Edmonton’s Task Force on Eliminating Poverty. Currently he is the CEO of Bissell Centre, a position he has held since the spring of 2011. www.markholmgren.com | @mjholmgren 26

Editor's Notes

  • #22: Confirmation bias: I prefer information that supports my position. Status quo bias: There’s no reason to change. I do not feel compelled to change. Anchoring happens when a small set of data anchors me to a position. Attentional bias: I consider what is before me and nothing else. I limit choices to the ones that have my attention. Bias Blind Spot – I am not as biased as you are. Contrast Bias: My position on crime and safety contrasted against “I was robbed yesterday”. Information bias: Don’t need more to act but we seek it anyway to avoid action. Semmelweis reflex: I reject that data or evidence because it contradicts what is deeply true for me. An availability cascade is a self-reinforcing cycle. A novel idea or insight, usually one that seems to explain a complex process in a simple or straightforward manner, gains rapid currency in the popular discourse by its very simplicity and by its apparent insightfulness