SlideShare a Scribd company logo
FROM KEYWORDS 
TO KEY PLAYER
HELPFUL CHARTS 
@joekerschbaum
@joekerschbaum
TITLE 
@joekerschbaum
SOLUTIONS & VISION 
@joekerschbaum
FROM PPC MANAGER 
TO THOUGHT LEADER 
@joekerschbaum
LEADERS 
FORGE 
BRIDGES
STOP SMILING 
@joekerschbaum
SMALL DEVICE / SMALL ATTENTION 
@joekerschbaum
D ON ’ T R E A D A L L OF T H I S 
@joekerschbaum
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW 
• 6 in 10 online adults in the 
US and UK use at least 2 
devices every day 
• 76% use their smartphone 
“on the go” 
• 60% of multi-device users 
transition to larger screens 
to finish tasks (PCs) 
• 22% finished on a tablet 
@joekerschbaum
MOBILE IS JUST THE BEGINNING 
@joekerschbaum 
Mobile Action 
Email 
Marketing 
Remarketing 
FB Custom 
Audiences
EMAIL MARKETING = GATEWAY 
@joekerschbaum 
Mobile Action 
Email 
Marketing 
Remarketing 
FB Custom 
Audiences
HI ! MAY I STALK YOU? 
@joekerschbaum 
Mobile Action 
Email 
Marketing 
Remarketing 
FB Custom 
Audiences
I ’ L L F I N D Y O U A N D O T H E R S L I K E Y O U 
@joekerschbaum 
Mobile Action 
Email 
Marketing 
Remarketing 
FB Custom 
Audiences
OK? MAKE SENSE? 
Mobile Action 
@joekerschbaum 
Email 
Marketing 
Remarketing 
FB Custom 
Audiences
@joekerschbaum
LEADERS EMBRACE 
AUDIENCE BEHAVIOR
IF I WRITE IT, THEY WILL COME 
@joekerschbaum 
Content Generation Remarketing 
Similar 
Audiences 
FB Custom 
Audiences
I ’M J U S T B R OWS I N G 
• 67% of buyers are using a wider variety of 
resources to research their vendor options 
• 55% say they spend more time researching 
purchases than before 
• 60% of buyers cite downloaded white papers 
and other content as influential 
• Influence the final decision: 69% were 
influenced by online demos; 63% by case 
studies; 47% were swayed by checklists/guides, 
45% by analyst reports, 42% by free trials (42%) 
and 34% by ROI calculators 
@joekerschbaum 
3rd Annual B2B Buyer Survey 
http://www.demandgenreport.com/industry-resources/ 
research/1782-the-2012-b2b-buyer-behavior-survey. 
html#.UM9v9W80WSo
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? 
• Meaning: buyers are conducting 
more research via search & articles 
• Meaning: buyers are spending 
more time online reading about 
their potential purchase 
• Meaning: buyers are taking longer 
to make purchase decisions 
• Meaning: buyers are looking for 
authoritative content that will aide 
them in their purchase journey 
@joekerschbaum
CONTENT MARKETING MISCONCEPTION 
@joekerschbaum
GREAT CONTENT = GATEWAY 
@joekerschbaum 
Content Generation 
Display 
Remarketing 
Similar 
Audiences 
FB Custom 
Audiences
HUNTING LIKE-MINDED FOLKS 
@joekerschbaum 
Content Generation Remarketing 
Similar 
Audiences 
FB Custom 
Audiences
SOCIAL FTW 
@joekerschbaum 
Content Generation 
Display 
Remarketing 
Similar 
Audiences 
Social 
Remarketing
OK? MAKE SENSE? 
Content Generation 
@joekerschbaum 
Display 
Remarketing 
Similar 
Audiences 
Social 
Remarketing
LEADERS OPTIMIZE 
THE ENTIRE 
PURCHASE PROCESS
TITLE 
@joekerschbaum
OWN THE ENTIRE JOURNEY 
@joekerschbaum 
Initial 
Search 
Refined 
Search 
Descriptive 
Queries 
Benefits / 
Features 
Deals / 
Offers 
Competitive 
Queries 
Remarketing 
Lists 
For Search 
Advertisers 
(RLSA)
STEALTH MODE 
@joekerschbaum 
Competitors 
Deals / 
Comparisons 
Upsells / 
Cross-Sells 
Initial 
Search 
Head Terms 
Refined 
Search 
Descriptive 
Queries 
Benefits / 
Features 
Deals / 
Offers 
Competitive 
Queries
APPLES, ORANGES, CAR SALESMEN 
@joekerschbaum 
Competitors 
Deals / 
Comparisons 
Upsells / 
Cross-Sells 
Head Terms
Y OU ’ V E S E E N T H E R E S T… 
4.00% 
3.50% 
3.00% 
2.50% 
2.00% 
1.50% 
1.00% 
0.50% 
0.00% 
@joekerschbaum 
Standard Search RLSA Search 
CTR 
Conv Rate
WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT? 
@joekerschbaum 
Selling other products 
to your customer base 
Selling other 
products & 
upgrades & new 
features 
Competitors 
Deals / 
Comparisons 
Upsells / 
Cross-Sells 
Head Terms
D ON ’ T P L AY WI T H F I R E 
Super Short Queries 
Highly Competitive Queries 
Competitive Seasonal Queries 
@joekerschbaum 
Competitors 
Deals / 
Comparisons 
Upsells / 
Cross-Sells 
Head Terms
GOOD? BAD? 
$120.00 
$100.00 
$80.00 
$60.00 
$40.00 
$20.00 
7.00% 
6.00% 
5.00% 
4.00% 
3.00% 
2.00% 
1.00% 
@joekerschbaum 
$3.50 
$3.00 
$2.50 
$2.00 
$1.50 
$1.00 
$0.50 
$- 
$- 
Search - General Search - RLSA 
Avg. CPC 
Cost / converted click 
0.00% 
Search - General Search - RLSA 
CTR 
Click conversion rate
NOT BAD 
Higher CPC 
Higher CTR 
Higher CPA 
Lower Conv Rate 
@joekerschbaum 
+15% 
Imp Lift 
+30% 
Click Lift 
+19% Conv Lift
OK? MAKE SENSE? 
@joekerschbaum
SUMMARY
TITLE 
@joekerschbaum
PROVIDE SOLUTIONS & VISION 
@joekerschbaum
GO BE A LEADER 
@joekerschbaum
THANK 
YOU 
Joseph Kerschbaum 
Midwest Account Director 
3Q Digital 
joseph@3qdigital.com 
Twitter: @joekerschbaum

More Related Content

PDF
Using Search Science For Keyword Research By Tony Verre
PDF
How Ecommerce Companies Can Do More with Less Shopping Ad Budget in 2020
PDF
Taking Your Content To The Next Level By Christine Churchill
PDF
Key Tactics to Compete and Win in Today’s Transparent Marketplace
PPTX
2013: What to Expect and How to Succeed in the Year of the Buyer
PDF
Your Retargeting Sucks (But It Doesn't Have To!) By Elizabeth Marsten
PPTX
SMX East 2015 Winning at Mobile - Amy Bishop
PPT
Alexandra Tănasă - Link Building prin Digital PR (2015.03.25, Impact HUB Buch...
Using Search Science For Keyword Research By Tony Verre
How Ecommerce Companies Can Do More with Less Shopping Ad Budget in 2020
Taking Your Content To The Next Level By Christine Churchill
Key Tactics to Compete and Win in Today’s Transparent Marketplace
2013: What to Expect and How to Succeed in the Year of the Buyer
Your Retargeting Sucks (But It Doesn't Have To!) By Elizabeth Marsten
SMX East 2015 Winning at Mobile - Amy Bishop
Alexandra Tănasă - Link Building prin Digital PR (2015.03.25, Impact HUB Buch...

What's hot (20)

PDF
SASCON ZMOT and Online PR
PDF
Thinking Big: Enterprise Ecommerce Paid Search By Elizabeth Marsten
PPTX
Facebook Ads: Target Real People Real Easy - John A. Lee - #HeroConf 2014
PPTX
Get Seen On the Go: Mobile Marketing in 2016 -- Goodyear
PPTX
A More Holistic View of Search Pages
PPTX
Marketing on a Shoestring Budget - Riverside Chamber - Jon Burgess
PDF
Digital marketing by numbers
PDF
Christian Betancourt - The Rise of Voice Search: Marketing in a Screenless World
PDF
Lisa Myers en The Inbounder
PDF
Contextual Personalization
PDF
3rd Party Leads & The Law of Increasing Returns
PDF
10 Ridiculous Hacks to 5X Click-Through Rates
PPTX
Your Mobile PPC Sucks (But It Doesn't Have To!) - SMX West 2017 - Maddie Cary
PPTX
Your Retargeting Sucks But it Doesn't Have To - SMX East 2016
PDF
JUST IN: AdWords Changes Coming May 2015 - EVERYTHING You Need to Know (Webinar)
PDF
Experiment Like an Evil Scientist: Framework, Method, Emotional Triggers By A...
PPTX
Gyro disappearing sales process
PDF
30 Conversion Rate Optimization Stats You Should Know
PDF
Social Analytics Best Practices Webinar
PDF
Social @ Every Turn
SASCON ZMOT and Online PR
Thinking Big: Enterprise Ecommerce Paid Search By Elizabeth Marsten
Facebook Ads: Target Real People Real Easy - John A. Lee - #HeroConf 2014
Get Seen On the Go: Mobile Marketing in 2016 -- Goodyear
A More Holistic View of Search Pages
Marketing on a Shoestring Budget - Riverside Chamber - Jon Burgess
Digital marketing by numbers
Christian Betancourt - The Rise of Voice Search: Marketing in a Screenless World
Lisa Myers en The Inbounder
Contextual Personalization
3rd Party Leads & The Law of Increasing Returns
10 Ridiculous Hacks to 5X Click-Through Rates
Your Mobile PPC Sucks (But It Doesn't Have To!) - SMX West 2017 - Maddie Cary
Your Retargeting Sucks But it Doesn't Have To - SMX East 2016
JUST IN: AdWords Changes Coming May 2015 - EVERYTHING You Need to Know (Webinar)
Experiment Like an Evil Scientist: Framework, Method, Emotional Triggers By A...
Gyro disappearing sales process
30 Conversion Rate Optimization Stats You Should Know
Social Analytics Best Practices Webinar
Social @ Every Turn
Ad

Viewers also liked (20)

PPTX
TRITALAVERA SOMOS TODOS
PDF
73819171 presentacion-dra-mercedes-serrano-guia-metabolica-conferencia-ideago...
PPT
Arranz orgaz javier_le1_tareas_tareacolaborativa
DOCX
Trabajo info
PPT
I Am A Switcher
PDF
Course on Regulation and Sustainable Energy in Developing Countries - Session 10
PDF
PDF
Flyer usuario final
PDF
Filtro de partículas y sus problemas
PDF
Webquests jordi ardell 2004
PDF
Performance agency
PPT
Devuelvele a la tierra
PDF
Iwtc 2008 Tom Raftery Why Blog
PDF
Eduketing 2013.Mistery Shopping.Ricardo Zamora
PDF
IPG Media Labs Digital Trends Report: The Year of Serendipity
PDF
MOTO G Interactive USER GUIDE
PDF
Pharma Market 17
PDF
Influenza a-ab-test-sheet
PDF
Area Magazine 39 - AREA Science Park
TRITALAVERA SOMOS TODOS
73819171 presentacion-dra-mercedes-serrano-guia-metabolica-conferencia-ideago...
Arranz orgaz javier_le1_tareas_tareacolaborativa
Trabajo info
I Am A Switcher
Course on Regulation and Sustainable Energy in Developing Countries - Session 10
Flyer usuario final
Filtro de partículas y sus problemas
Webquests jordi ardell 2004
Performance agency
Devuelvele a la tierra
Iwtc 2008 Tom Raftery Why Blog
Eduketing 2013.Mistery Shopping.Ricardo Zamora
IPG Media Labs Digital Trends Report: The Year of Serendipity
MOTO G Interactive USER GUIDE
Pharma Market 17
Influenza a-ab-test-sheet
Area Magazine 39 - AREA Science Park
Ad

Similar to From Keywords to Key Player (20)

PDF
Urban Development Institute of Halifax NS - Find Your Fan Factor: 3 Sales and...
PPTX
Navah Hopkins and Amy Bishop — Increase ROI With Intelligent Message Mapping
PDF
Business Strategies To Deliver Better Customer Value PowerPoint Presentation ...
PPTX
How People Buy Today B2C vs. B2B
PDF
Top Ways To Reach Your Target Audience PowerPoint Presentation Slides
PDF
Implementing Customer Strategy For Your Organization Complete Deck
PPTX
How To Market Your Expertise Online: Creating A Brand Strategy
PPTX
How To Market Your Expertise Online: Creating A Brand Strategy
PDF
How To Develop The Perfect Target Customer Personas PowerPoint Presentation S...
PPTX
The Future of Consumer Research
PPTX
Stronger together: The new reality of consumers, brands & retailers united |...
PPTX
The Soundboard: Rockhouse Partners Case Studies
PDF
Insight conference: Reviving the Dead: Turning Dead Leads into real business
PDF
How To Segment And Target The Right Customer PowerPoint Presentation Slides
PPT
User Generated Content in a Complex Sales Environment
PPTX
Digital summit social media measurement
PPTX
Shopee Product and Pricing
PPSX
11 Tips From the Front Lines to Optimize Your Multichannel Marketing Campaigns
PPTX
Clever Ways Brands use PPC for Customer Loyalty - MozTalk Philadelphia - Purn...
PPTX
BigWing: Breakfast with Google
Urban Development Institute of Halifax NS - Find Your Fan Factor: 3 Sales and...
Navah Hopkins and Amy Bishop — Increase ROI With Intelligent Message Mapping
Business Strategies To Deliver Better Customer Value PowerPoint Presentation ...
How People Buy Today B2C vs. B2B
Top Ways To Reach Your Target Audience PowerPoint Presentation Slides
Implementing Customer Strategy For Your Organization Complete Deck
How To Market Your Expertise Online: Creating A Brand Strategy
How To Market Your Expertise Online: Creating A Brand Strategy
How To Develop The Perfect Target Customer Personas PowerPoint Presentation S...
The Future of Consumer Research
Stronger together: The new reality of consumers, brands & retailers united |...
The Soundboard: Rockhouse Partners Case Studies
Insight conference: Reviving the Dead: Turning Dead Leads into real business
How To Segment And Target The Right Customer PowerPoint Presentation Slides
User Generated Content in a Complex Sales Environment
Digital summit social media measurement
Shopee Product and Pricing
11 Tips From the Front Lines to Optimize Your Multichannel Marketing Campaigns
Clever Ways Brands use PPC for Customer Loyalty - MozTalk Philadelphia - Purn...
BigWing: Breakfast with Google

Recently uploaded (20)

PDF
5 free to use google tools to understand your customers online behavior in 20...
PPTX
Fixing-AI-Hallucinations-The-NeuroRanktm-Approach.pptx
PDF
Missing skill for SEO in AI Era eSkydecode.pdf
PPTX
Mastering eCommerce SEO: Strategies to Boost Traffic and Maximize Conversions
PPTX
hnk joint business plan for_Rooftop_Plan
PDF
sm_67a1bc7f35716dcb1a9195ea_382528b8-2159-47be-a7ba-d034a449f849.pdf
PPTX
Choose the Right SEO Agency India - 7 Key Tips by Clickbold Media
PPTX
UNIT 3 - 5 INDUSTRIAL PRICING.ppt x
PDF
Digital Marketing - clear pictire of marketing
PDF
Mastering Bulk Email Campaign Optimization for 2025
PPT
Introduction to consumer behavior(1).PPT
PDF
Wondershare Filmora Crack Free Download 2025
PDF
DigiBrandX: Crafting Identities That Resonate
PDF
Biography of Brady Beitlich
PPTX
SaaS intelligence platform for B2B founders and marketers - Toksta
PDF
You Need SEO for Your Business. Here’s Why..pdf
PPT
Market Segmentation and Positioning(3).ppt
PPTX
"Best Healthcare Digital Marketing Ideas
PDF
RC 14001 Certification: Enhancing ISO 14001 with EHS & Security Standards
PDF
E_Book_Customer_Relation_Management_0.pdf
5 free to use google tools to understand your customers online behavior in 20...
Fixing-AI-Hallucinations-The-NeuroRanktm-Approach.pptx
Missing skill for SEO in AI Era eSkydecode.pdf
Mastering eCommerce SEO: Strategies to Boost Traffic and Maximize Conversions
hnk joint business plan for_Rooftop_Plan
sm_67a1bc7f35716dcb1a9195ea_382528b8-2159-47be-a7ba-d034a449f849.pdf
Choose the Right SEO Agency India - 7 Key Tips by Clickbold Media
UNIT 3 - 5 INDUSTRIAL PRICING.ppt x
Digital Marketing - clear pictire of marketing
Mastering Bulk Email Campaign Optimization for 2025
Introduction to consumer behavior(1).PPT
Wondershare Filmora Crack Free Download 2025
DigiBrandX: Crafting Identities That Resonate
Biography of Brady Beitlich
SaaS intelligence platform for B2B founders and marketers - Toksta
You Need SEO for Your Business. Here’s Why..pdf
Market Segmentation and Positioning(3).ppt
"Best Healthcare Digital Marketing Ideas
RC 14001 Certification: Enhancing ISO 14001 with EHS & Security Standards
E_Book_Customer_Relation_Management_0.pdf

From Keywords to Key Player

  • 1. FROM KEYWORDS TO KEY PLAYER
  • 5. SOLUTIONS & VISION @joekerschbaum
  • 6. FROM PPC MANAGER TO THOUGHT LEADER @joekerschbaum
  • 9. SMALL DEVICE / SMALL ATTENTION @joekerschbaum
  • 10. D ON ’ T R E A D A L L OF T H I S @joekerschbaum
  • 11. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW • 6 in 10 online adults in the US and UK use at least 2 devices every day • 76% use their smartphone “on the go” • 60% of multi-device users transition to larger screens to finish tasks (PCs) • 22% finished on a tablet @joekerschbaum
  • 12. MOBILE IS JUST THE BEGINNING @joekerschbaum Mobile Action Email Marketing Remarketing FB Custom Audiences
  • 13. EMAIL MARKETING = GATEWAY @joekerschbaum Mobile Action Email Marketing Remarketing FB Custom Audiences
  • 14. HI ! MAY I STALK YOU? @joekerschbaum Mobile Action Email Marketing Remarketing FB Custom Audiences
  • 15. I ’ L L F I N D Y O U A N D O T H E R S L I K E Y O U @joekerschbaum Mobile Action Email Marketing Remarketing FB Custom Audiences
  • 16. OK? MAKE SENSE? Mobile Action @joekerschbaum Email Marketing Remarketing FB Custom Audiences
  • 19. IF I WRITE IT, THEY WILL COME @joekerschbaum Content Generation Remarketing Similar Audiences FB Custom Audiences
  • 20. I ’M J U S T B R OWS I N G • 67% of buyers are using a wider variety of resources to research their vendor options • 55% say they spend more time researching purchases than before • 60% of buyers cite downloaded white papers and other content as influential • Influence the final decision: 69% were influenced by online demos; 63% by case studies; 47% were swayed by checklists/guides, 45% by analyst reports, 42% by free trials (42%) and 34% by ROI calculators @joekerschbaum 3rd Annual B2B Buyer Survey http://www.demandgenreport.com/industry-resources/ research/1782-the-2012-b2b-buyer-behavior-survey. html#.UM9v9W80WSo
  • 21. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? • Meaning: buyers are conducting more research via search & articles • Meaning: buyers are spending more time online reading about their potential purchase • Meaning: buyers are taking longer to make purchase decisions • Meaning: buyers are looking for authoritative content that will aide them in their purchase journey @joekerschbaum
  • 23. GREAT CONTENT = GATEWAY @joekerschbaum Content Generation Display Remarketing Similar Audiences FB Custom Audiences
  • 24. HUNTING LIKE-MINDED FOLKS @joekerschbaum Content Generation Remarketing Similar Audiences FB Custom Audiences
  • 25. SOCIAL FTW @joekerschbaum Content Generation Display Remarketing Similar Audiences Social Remarketing
  • 26. OK? MAKE SENSE? Content Generation @joekerschbaum Display Remarketing Similar Audiences Social Remarketing
  • 27. LEADERS OPTIMIZE THE ENTIRE PURCHASE PROCESS
  • 29. OWN THE ENTIRE JOURNEY @joekerschbaum Initial Search Refined Search Descriptive Queries Benefits / Features Deals / Offers Competitive Queries Remarketing Lists For Search Advertisers (RLSA)
  • 30. STEALTH MODE @joekerschbaum Competitors Deals / Comparisons Upsells / Cross-Sells Initial Search Head Terms Refined Search Descriptive Queries Benefits / Features Deals / Offers Competitive Queries
  • 31. APPLES, ORANGES, CAR SALESMEN @joekerschbaum Competitors Deals / Comparisons Upsells / Cross-Sells Head Terms
  • 32. Y OU ’ V E S E E N T H E R E S T… 4.00% 3.50% 3.00% 2.50% 2.00% 1.50% 1.00% 0.50% 0.00% @joekerschbaum Standard Search RLSA Search CTR Conv Rate
  • 33. WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT? @joekerschbaum Selling other products to your customer base Selling other products & upgrades & new features Competitors Deals / Comparisons Upsells / Cross-Sells Head Terms
  • 34. D ON ’ T P L AY WI T H F I R E Super Short Queries Highly Competitive Queries Competitive Seasonal Queries @joekerschbaum Competitors Deals / Comparisons Upsells / Cross-Sells Head Terms
  • 35. GOOD? BAD? $120.00 $100.00 $80.00 $60.00 $40.00 $20.00 7.00% 6.00% 5.00% 4.00% 3.00% 2.00% 1.00% @joekerschbaum $3.50 $3.00 $2.50 $2.00 $1.50 $1.00 $0.50 $- $- Search - General Search - RLSA Avg. CPC Cost / converted click 0.00% Search - General Search - RLSA CTR Click conversion rate
  • 36. NOT BAD Higher CPC Higher CTR Higher CPA Lower Conv Rate @joekerschbaum +15% Imp Lift +30% Click Lift +19% Conv Lift
  • 37. OK? MAKE SENSE? @joekerschbaum
  • 40. PROVIDE SOLUTIONS & VISION @joekerschbaum
  • 41. GO BE A LEADER @joekerschbaum
  • 42. THANK YOU Joseph Kerschbaum Midwest Account Director 3Q Digital joseph@3qdigital.com Twitter: @joekerschbaum

Editor's Notes

  • #3: Usually I have all kinds of charts, graphs, etc in my presentation, but today we’re reaching out of the spreadsheet and into the starts. We’re going for bigger topics.
  • #4: We’re going for a bigger focus today because this (wheel image) is the marketing mix for many companies. And you and your SEM campaign are often just a small cog in this wheel. So, how can you break outside your little allotted slot here? How can PPC influence other channels? Can you develop cross-channel strategies that can impact your entire company?
  • #5: This is the point of the presentation today: Let’s open our minds.
  • #6: When you open your mind, you can start to see new ways around issues within your marketing efforts and your entire organization.
  • #7: When get out of the spreadsheets (even though they are important) and you start thinking about cross-channel initiatives and solving problems within your organization, you will go from PPC Manager to Thought Leader.
  • #9: This guy is costing you money. Clicking on your mobile ads, and not buying.
  • #14: Get someone to convert via mobile with a softer action, perhaps just their email. Then utilize your email marketing, and with any luck this person will open and click-through on their laptop. That’s how you get someone off their phone and onto their PC.
  • #15: Once you get someone off their phone and onto their PC, then you can follow them with Remarketing ads.
  • #16: Also, if you can someone’s email via mobile – then you can opt this person into a Custom Audience in FB. Also, you can create Look-alike Audiences in FB based on your Custom audience.
  • #23: People don’t look at just 1 piece of content and then decide to convert. They will probably interact with a few pieces of your content before taking any action.
  • #24: This is why Remarketing can help your content marketing efforts. Cookie people and then deliver additional content or even direct response ads.
  • #25: Within Google you can create Similar Audiences based on your cookied visitors.
  • #26: Follow a similar pattern for search. Get people to your content, and then Remarket it to them.
  • #32: Long sales cycle – Good strategy
  • #33: CTR was higher for RLSA. Conversion rate a bit weaker. But we increased conversions 50%.
  • #40: This is how you open your mind.
  • #41: These tactics can give you ideas on how to solve problems within your organization.
  • #42: Take your PPC skills and knowledge and apply them to other areas of your business. This is who you go from Campaign Manager to Thought Leader.